Board Thread:Antaeus' Arena: Audience Chamber/@comment-1515612-20161222000051/@comment-24067344-20161223233223

Oceanhalo12 wrote: At the time she controlled Leo, he was possessed and unaware of being controlled. In a one - on-one fight, he'd be ready for it and PIPER SAID HERSELF that it works bad on people who are aware of it, which applies to Leo.It also works bad on people who aren't attracted to her, which applies to Leo. Simple commands like stop wear off easily, which applies to this situation.Trying to go on the offense makes it useless, which applies to this situation.

So if Leo is not immune, he's pretty darn close to it.

Ok, I came back a lot earlier than I expected, but I got my hands one the computer to debate well.

Okay, not let's start with the main point, the core, or one of them in your arguments. One of the main points you are making, is that Piper can charmspeak other people very well, if they are not aware that she has the power, or that the gender is the same as her, which is female. To be honest, that's isn't exactly true, and I'll explain later why her thoughts about this aren't about being literally true, but more about her doubting herself, and less of being a reality. For example, at the beginning of The Mark of Athena:

“Lower your weapons,” she murmured. “We just want to talk.”

"Her charmspeak was so powerful, the words flowed over Annabeth, filling her with the desire to drop her dagger and have a nice long chat."

This is from the perspective of Annabeth. Despite Annabeth being a female, despite she knowing that Piper had charmspeak, the only way for her to resist it, was to, well contiualy resist it, but she found it hard anyways. You see the fact, that Piper wasn’t exactly right on what she believed what you could consider the cons of her powers. Not let me remind you that this is Before House of Hades/Blood of Olympus, meaning that her powers have increased a lot at all, so yeah, this is a perfect example of Piper’s charmsepak against a female, and it almost worked. Let me also remind you, that this wasn’t exactly to Annabeth. I mean, Piper wasn’t exactly targeting Annabeth when she was charmspeaking, showing how powerful her charmspeak despite not targeting her. But to be honest, this isn’t new news at all. In the Lost Hero she was able:

“Piper stepped forward. Her eyes blazed with such rage, even the Earthborn backed away. She radiated power and beauty, but it had nothing to do with her clothes or her makeup.

“You will not take the people I love,” she said. “None of them.”

Her words rippled across the clearing with such force, the Earthborn muttered, “Okay. Okay, sorry,” and began to retreat.” Now, not only was she able to force the earthborn to almost retreat despite her charmspeak being nowhere near as powerful as she is now currently, but she was also able to to make several wolves go to sleep, despite her target not being the wolves, but Gaea herself, when Piper and Leo was trying to save Hera:

“Sleep!” Piper said, so forcefully, the nearest wolves fell to the ground and began snoring.

My point is that Piper doesn’t have to charmspeak Leo directly for him to be compelely manipulated or in a status where he would do anything that Piper says. In fact, even Leo himself thinks that Piper can force him, and it scares him:

Now, remember the part where I said, it doesn’t really matter if you’re a female, since Piper could probably convince you to do anything? The next part I’m going to show you sounds impoosible and ridiculous, but Piper did it anyways:

“Piper!” Frank yelled. “Counter those empousai! We need some chaos.”

“Thought you’d never ask.” She started catcalling at the female demons: “Your makeup is smeared! Your friend called you ugly! That one is making a face behind your back!” Soon the vampire ladies were too busy fighting one another to shout any commands.

She was able to out-charmspeak females who had charmspeak. I’m getting the feeling that charmspeaking Leo wouldn’t be to hard to do, espeacilly if Piper can out-charmspeak others. Talking about Charmspeak, remember in The Lost Hero, where she did it as well with some sorceress, whom she herself has been trained for decades with another famous sorceress? Yeah, well while her charmspeak couldn’t compete with hers, she broke her spell, which I consider to be quite impressive, considering the fact that her voice was a thousand times more potent and powerful:

“Jason, Leo, listen to me.” Piper put all of her emotion into her voice. For years she’d been trying to control herself and not show weakness, but now she poured everything into her words—her fear, her desperation, her anger. She knew she might be signing her dad’s death warrant, but she cared too much about her friends to let them hurt each other. “Medea is charming you. It’s part of her magic. You are best friends. Don’t fight each other. Fight her!”

They hesitated, and Piper could feel the spell shatter.

If Piper can break a spell from a powerful sorceress, put animals and beings to sleep even though her target or mission isn’t to them, or even make females fall into her trap rather easily, what makes you think she can’t do it to Leo?

If you disagree, I understand, after all, this is a debate! If you aren’t quite yet impressed, let’s do some more digging then.

Now, to make things a bing more interesting, let’s get to the part if Piper can truly trap people into her charmspeaking, people who know that she can charmspeak, and what she’s capapble at (Oh, I’m going to speak about this a bit later, but noticed I used the word trap. In the Lost hero, She felt that this was wrong, I’ll explain this a bit more later)

So yeah, let’s find some more examples where Piper could charmspeak people, and while she might not be so successful, she can definintly get attention, meaning an easier way of making people do what she wants. If you realize this, you’d see how powerful Piper can be. She needs the attention of beings, or caught them off-guard, either way. Piper can do the same with Leo. So yeah, heres the part:

Please, Your Majesty,” Piper said.

Everyone’s eyes turned toward her. She had to be scared out of her mind, but she looked beautiful and confident—and it had nothing to do with the blessing of Aphrodite. She looked herself again, in day-old traveling clothes with choppy hair and no makeup. But she almost glowed with warmth in that cold throne room. “If you tell us where the storm spirits are, we can capture them and bring them to Aeolus. You’d look good in front of your boss. Aeolus might pardon us and the other demigods. We could even rescue Gleeson Hedge. Everyone wins.”

Let me mention, that Piper was very cold, and if she was able to convince them for a moment, while being both scared, nervous and cold, don’t you think she can convince anyone with a several words post-Blood of Olympus? Let me also remind you, they now that she can charmspeak, as shown by Khione:

“Father, don’t listen to her,” Khione said. “She’s a child of Aphrodite. She dares to charmspeak a god? Freeze her now!”

Also, she basically convinced a god using her wits and charmspeak, according to Khoine, TO be honest, I consider this to be quite impressive, consider the status Piper was in, and how little time she has used her powers:

At the bottom step, Khione turned to Piper. “You have fooled my father, girl. But you have not fooled me. We are not done. And you, Jason Grace, I will see you as a statue in the throne room soon enough.”

So, Piper can charmspeak goddesses, gods, females rather easily, monsters, demigods who are aware with her charmspeaking, and yet you don’t believe she can’t charmpeak Leo? Well, I am not quite finished yet with this.

Next point will be the 7. A perfect example of what Piper can do, even if her target wasn’t them, yet the effects and influence was incredibly powerful: Before I use that main example, I’ll give you an example from Leo himself, in which Piper didn’t try to charmspeak Leo (but she did), but that isn’t the point. The point is, if the heroes aren’t focuses on Piper with her charmspeaking, Piper can get away with everything. And since Leo is focused on beating Piper, I believe Piper can charmspeak Leo rathe reasily, sicne his focus isn’t on something else. Here’s the part where I am talking about:

“Piper hadn’t realized she was charmspeaking, but Leo immediately dropped his screwdriver and punched the alarm button. He frowned when nothing happened.”

Another example, while being very different, is that, in some way, (Though this is more of an assumption that a fact though), Piper, in some way, was able to bring Jason back to life, (Because you cant’ see a gods true appearance cause it can kill you) through charmspeak:

At the bottom step, Khione turned to Piper. “You have fooled my father, girl. But you have not fooled me. We are not done. And you, Jason Grace, I will see you as a statue in the throne room soon enough.”

If Piper can bring Jason back to life, don’t you think Piper can make Leo crazy, and insane? Meaning that he can kill himself? While Piper hasn’t shown that (because she’s not dark and is a hero, wether you admit it or not), it’s most likely possible, after all, she did save Jason from dying.

Okay, since this is getting far too long, this is my first part of my argument. I'll add my second part when I'm done writing it and thinking this more thoroughly. Now, I'm not done answering many of your points about Piper, but I'll answer them (hopefully). But for now, I wanted to show you what Piper is capable, and that you guys (most) have underestimated her power. Peace.