Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-24252521-20171123044845/@comment-33040002-20180328022501

Philosophernoct wrote: Anways, I'm going to talk about Piper now. So let's get back to the topic. And I don't even talk about her messed up relationship with Jason, at all. No... there are so many things about her, right? So lets discuss about these things,

About that Medea, Jason and Leo part, well, Oceanhalo is right actually. He just couldn't explain well what he was thinking. I used to read fandom discussions, and people in there are like generally talk about the series and someone wrote about Piper there. And her arguments about Piper was great;

In that scene with Medea, yes, Piper saves Jason and Leo from tearing each other apart. That is what Piper was thinking in that situation; She cared too much about her friends to let them hurt each other. Well, what she thought and her mentality is a little bit different, because what was she thought is not actually show she really cares about her friends. No. This does not show Piper being a good person or a good friend, because she does not care that Jason and Leo are about to be hurt. She only says that she will be hurt if they hurt each other, because she cares about them.

A good friend, but more likely, a good person says "I'm not going to let those guys hurt each other. They are decent people, and no one deserves to be controlled like that."

A bad friend/person says "I like those guys too much to have them hurt each other."

Piper doesn't care about them as people or friends, she only cares about how their deaths will affect her, and how she is seen as a person.

Piper even does not care about her siblings. She only cares about being "better" than Drew. She hates charmspeaking because it makes her to similar to Drew. She doesn't hate charmspeaking because of it against morality or ethics and this is wrong. The reason she hates charmspeaking is basicly it makes her like Drew. And not to mention, when Piper uses it, she doesn't care about how taking over someone else's mind affects them, or even affects her morally. We never saw Piper was regretted or feel ashamed about that. We are just told that Piper is ashamed. Never does Riordan actually show us ways that she feels guilty. Nor does he show us ways that she tries to improve herself and stop charmspeaking people. Piper has no development as to this, and she is not actually ashamed of herself or chagrined in any way.

Look, I don't say that she shouldn't be charmspeak, I'm saying that her thoughts and her acts are like from complete two different another dimensions. And about that charmspeaking part, Piper's use is not accidental. She was fully prepared to Charmspeak every Roman in the Legion. The only thing that stopped her was her irrational fear of Jason leaving her. And she did use it. When the Romans were attacking them for a perfectly justifiable reason, she controlled their minds, and when we see her speaking a chapter later, she does not feel any guilt. She does not even mention it.

And don't mention how much stupid her act. You are going to make peace with Romans, your rivals, and you just goes and control their minds with your powers, like this can be help to make peace with Romans. And Octavian even insulted her acts, and saidCharmspeakers are like Sirens. By the way, Octavian's questioning and insulting her and her acts doesn't mean that Piper is really questioned. Piper should be questioned by her friends. Not by villains. And Annabeth has a fault that part too. She didn't even try to stop Piper ever. She encouraged Piper.

These are examples and there are mores of them. But I'm stopping here because of long writing... First, I wanted to say that I agree with you about Piper's use of charmspeak. It's not a much debated topic as it should have been in the books, which is a shame. But about her being a bad person and / or friend ... Again I wanted to bring Medea into the discussion but only to say that when we debated her, I made a mistake and you helped me see that. Medea had flaws but it was true she was in a complicated situation. I still believe that people are responsible for their actions but you're right about not always being that simple. I was hypocritical about this because what you think of her case is more or less my vision of Piper. Piper is not, you're right, a good person in a way. And she never sees herself like that. In the books, there was a time that her father was telling a story about a family that to end a flood would have to sacrifice their dog, and she herself says in all letters that she could not see herself doing it. Piper and her friends say almost every time they just want to have a quiet life with the people they love. It is true that a good person would think of saving people just because they are people, but it is very rare for someone to be like that. Humans, for the most part, only care about themselves or those they love. It's great to bring things like this to the debate because then people can be better but I do not think that makes Piper bad, and I do not think she's good either. I think it makes her human and by definition that means a middle ground, in my opinion. She is a girl with flaws and qualities who is good to those with whom she cares but not always with outsiders, but this is something that not only her but almost all the characters do and the people out of the books as well. About her brothers and Drew, you're right. We did not see many of her scenes with the siblings to see if she really liked them, I mean, I think she cares but unfortunately that was not very developed. As for Drew, she tries to act different from her because, for Piper, Drew represents everything she hates most. But if she wants to be different, she should be more careful with the charmspeak, I agree. It is a defect of her that has not been worked on. And about the Romans, you're right again. Myself, when I read The Mark of Athena, I could not see how to use the charmspeak would make the Romans trust the Greeks. That would have been stupid. But I do not agree when you say she should have felt ashamed to use them when she and Jason were attacked. Did the Romans have their motives? Yes, they did. But Piper had hers as well. She was about to be killed, Jason was bruised and the Romans were so furious that they would not listen to reason. I can think of several situations for her to regret using charmspeak but this one for sure is not one of them. I mean, if she had not done it then, what could she have done? What was the other alternative?