Board Thread:Antaeus' Arena: Audience Chamber/@comment-1515612-20151024232802/@comment-31175022-20170201210139

AACM12 wrote: but then there is no fight, jack was the only reason that magnus would last more than 5 seconds against percy. I was thinking that maybe jack could function like it does but only while being held by magnus so no floating sword but only guiding his movements like he did against surt in the bridge. Otherwise there is not fight, you might as well put and ant in front of percy. Exactly! If Jack can't guide Magnus's movements, there's no point in us discussing this at all. He wouldn't last two seconds. Seriously, he would get disarmed faster than he could blink, and then there'd be a sword at his throat, another blink, he's dead. We are all aware that Percy is skilled with a sword and that Magnus is… getting there.



Now, if Jack's in the game as well, things get interesting. It's a fair fight then, so… 



STRAP IN, DUDES AND DUDETTES, CUZ I'M BREAKING THIS THING DOWN TOPIC BY TOPIC. WITH POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING THAT’S OUT.



[Some of these points are scientific facts, some are speculation, some are my opinion. Don't be a jerk. #peace]





<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">STRENGTH: Percy is stronger than a regular human. Fact. Furthermore, he's been getting progressively leaner and more muscular as times goes by. But, guys... Magnus can rip a lamppost from solid cement. Percy isn't even close to that, no matter how much we want to defend him. In an arm wrestling competition, Magnus would take the prize.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">However, my lovelies, strength alone doesn’t always win you a fight. Take for example Percy and Annabeth. I mean, we don’t really know after Heroes of Olympus, but I’m assuming they’re still almost matched in swordplay (I know, Annabeth has a knife, I know). If they’ve both been training to the best of their abilities all this time and gaining muscle (real muscle, not necessarily getting ripped), biology states that Percy is stronger than her. Still, Annabeth is highly skilled and agile, and gives him a hard time, even if she doesn’t win. It’s about balance and it brings us to my next topic.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">AGILITY: Magnus was gifted with this when he became an einherji. Then Percy shows up in The Hidden Oracle and climbs down that enormous statue as if it's nothing. He's ADHD, meaning he's hyperactive and hypervigilant (pays a lot of attention to his surroundings). Besides, his father is a war god. His DNA is wired for battle. Magnus is a contraction: son of a peace god and one of Odin's warriors. It isn't in his DNA, but his normal human or demigod agility was einherji-enhanced. On the other hand, though, Jack is pretty agile by himself. Being held by Magnus would restrict him, yes, but would he be better than Percy? Even with his einherji abilities, I believe Percy still wins this one. Even Apollo was impressed with him.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">IMMORTALITY: I'm not even gonna. This imaginary battle isn't taking place in Valhalla.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">WIT AND BATTLE STRATEGY: They both have similar ways of talking themselves out of trouble and are both very efficient at it. Percy has this down to a religion, we all know. Magnus has bartered with Ran for Jack, aside from being Annabeth's cousin and being pretty clever by himself. Let’s not forget he was homeless for two years; if that doesn’t teach him survival strategies, I don’t know what does. Still, Percy might win out of experience with witty comebacks and manipulation in battle.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">Considering battle techniques, though, Jack and Percy are probably matched. I don't know well enough to judge who's better at war, the Greek or the Norse, so I'm not giving this point.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">RESISTANCE, ENDURANCE: Magnus falls into pretty much lava with Thrynga, fights her, and then climbs back up. How long was he in there for? Oh, but wait, Percy can also resist lava for some time, as seen in BOTL. They both have been sent flying by giants and hit solid rock. Magnus broke something in his ribcage, Percy got a nosebleed (which can indicate just the rupture of a nasal blood vessel or an internal cranial fracture. I’m guessing it was the first). Neither lost consciousness. Then they were both up and at 'em again once the dizziness settled a bit.

<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">As for who'd get tired first? I'll get back to you on that one further down.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">SWORD FIGHTING: Hands down, we all know Percy is better. But is Percy better than Jack? This is where it gets interesting.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0cm;">No curse of Achilles, btw.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">I really don't have to explain how good Percy is with Riptide. He's naturally talented and has built on that for years. He's battled gods, titans, and giants, holding his ground and killing some of them. Bonus points for not dying, not even once. He was, according to Frank, a demon when fighting in Camp Jupiter, taking a lot of opponents down at once (because they were confused with his fighting style). He has also protected Frank while fending off an entire ghost army in SoN. Talk about agility here as well.

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<p style="margin:0cm0cm0.0001pt;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Frankly, the only time I can recall that he was honestly and irrevocably outmatched in swordplay was against Chrysaor. I stand by this, unless anyone else can remember another time (and I don't mean a time like with Kronos or Jason when he was matched, I mean outmatched).

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Magnus was rubbish. The first thing he does with Jack is hit Surt in the head with it, which doesn't do much damage, and then he gets punched in the gut and is invalid for some time. When Jack awakes, though, he blocks Surt, slashes his leg, and cuts off his nose, all the while guiding Magnus's arm. Then Surt hits Magnus with an asphalt cannonball. Knowing he would die, Magnus goes for one last strike and Jack stabs Surt. Ultimately, if Surt weren't a giant, he'd have been killed. The thing is, Magnus died as well. So it's a tie.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">In Valhalla, for the games, Magnus uses a normal sword, and he usually sends Jack on his own to do stuff. We only get to really see them together in The Hammer of Thor.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">When they're fighting against Gellir and the draugrs, Jack is trying to teach Magnus, so he isn't using his full ability. Quoting, "The few times I managed to hit a zombie, Jack cut him to pieces", suggesting that Magnus is still pretty bad, but when he does hit something, Jack unleashes his true power. The only remarkable thing Magnus does then is when he, in a rage, charges Randolph and slashes the Skofnung sword out of his hand, cutting his fingers in the process. But that may only show that he has bad aim or that he was too angry to aim correctly. Percy maintains his abilities even when angry.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">We get to the end of the book, though, and oh, now we’re talking. Quote, “Jack and I leaped into action, working together efficiently for once, cleaving through one earth giant after another”. Awesome! Until the Skofnung sword is unsheathed in the presence of women and the sound that’s made affects everyone. Jack is knocked “unconscious” and Magnus can’t do much; says it feels like dead weight in his hand (maybe like a, ah, normal sword?). A while later, when they’re still dazed but back on their feet, Magnus sends Jack to fight on his own. But is Jack tired because Magnus is tired or because he himself was affected by Skofnung?

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">To be continued.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Another thing I didn’t notice anyone discussing:

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">MAGNUS IS LEFT-HANDED: I had a long debate about this with my boyfriend. He’s left-handed and fought Muay Thai for some time. Granted, it’s not the same as swordplay, I know, but what he told me applies to any sport he’s ever played (like football, or soccer for the Americans). What I’m gonna say comes from his experience and the bit of research I managed to do.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Right-handed people are used to fighting against right-handed people. Left-handed people are used to fighting against right-handed people. Meaning, this usually plays to the left-handed’s advantage. Everything is mirrored. This can throw a right-handed person off until they get used to it, which might take less or more time.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">As an experienced swordsman and someone who has been doing this for years, it’s unlikely Percy has never fought anyone who’s left-handed. He himself admits to training with his left hand sometimes, in case it’s needed in battle (it has happened, I just can’t find when, but I remember him switching Riptide to the left once, because I was impressed). It’s unlikely he would go lefty to match Magnus, but he could if he wanted to, which would then confuse Magnus a bit. No one is used to left-handed opponents.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Magnus would be wise to train both arms as well. My boyfriend would throw his adversaries off by switching from left to right constantly and keeping them on edge. Fighting as a lefty came naturally, so he trained more as a righty to balance both sides and be as unpredictable as possible, especially because the best blows would come from the left. If Magnus works on this, it’s an advantage.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Now, Percy’s Greek fighting style is a lot like chess – it’s all about studying your opponent and picking up on the little things so as to predict his next moves and adjust to them. I think he wouldn’t have much problem going against a left-handed adversary due to his experience and perceptiveness. He has fought people who were using both arms for weapons. Unless Jack has been training Magnus to use both hands, I don’t think his left-handiness would matter much to someone like Percy.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">SO WHAT’S OUR SCORE, FOLKS?

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">> Strength: Magnus

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">> Agility: Percy

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">> Wit and Battle Strategy: Matched to a point

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">> Resistance, Endurance: To be further discussed ahead

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">> Sword Fighting: Jack? Percy?

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Coming to a conclusion is hard. Percy has years on Magnus, but he doesn’t have years on Jack. I couldn’t find much about Frey’s sword’s abilities on the internet, only that it fights on its own if the wielder is worthy. Talk about helpful information.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">But this is a point I want to make: when Magnus sends Jack to do stuff, he feels the tiredness when he holds him back? If he’s wielding Jack, does that transfer of tiredness happen simultaneously? Because Magnus isn’t doing all the work, he’d have to feel the work Jack’s done as well. So does he get double tired?

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">No, lovelies. As it happened when Jack flew Magnus up to talk to Sam (when they sit in a tree, T-A-L-K-I-N-G) and other occasions, Magnus feels the tiredness (sleeps for hours) when he gets Jack back to pendant form, not when he holds him. So there we have it! He’d just get normal Magnus tired during the fight! And he’d still have help!

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">But if Magnus is hurt, is Jack still in full fighting capacity? I would believe so. So if Jack doesn’t get tired as Magnus does, the sword could keep going indefinitely. But, once again, Magnus has to be holding him, so, at some point, he wouldn’t be able to anymore. By the time Magnus reaches exhaustion point, how is Percy? Strong enough to fend off Jack?

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">For that Percy would have to keep his top fighting skills even when drained. We know, from Tartarus, that Percy can do such a thing to survive. When they reach the Doors of Death, he’s dead on his feet (pun intended) and still going. He kills many monsters and arai there, defending Annabeth as she cuts the chains of the Doors. He has enough in him to burst the little river veins and splash monsters, and they’re not as easy to control as regular water. Granted, he passes out when they reach Epirus, but until then he had been fighting and running for days, barely sleeping. Give the guy some credit. When motivated, he can stand his ground.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">So, with proper motivation, Percy would be able to keep up with Jack – being it love, rage or survival (Annabeth has said it herself, “if it keeps him going, let him be angry”). I don’t remember him getting sloppy when high on emotions (feel free to add in). It usually gives him focus. As I said before, Magnus angrily tried to disarm Randolph (probably what his intention was, idk) and ended up cutting off his uncle’s fingers. All because Blitzen was hurt. Maybe that’s where his inexperience shows. He threw all technique out of the window. In this instance, it worked on his favour, but I doubt that’d be the case if he slips up against Percy.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">IN CONCLUSION

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Without repeating myself much, I’d like to say that I think Magnus would get exhausted before Percy’s tiredness caused him to slip up against Jack. Peace out.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">[P.S.: I left out anything related to their divine powers, because this was long enough and I was looking at a sword fight. But I can say a few words.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;">Magnus heals himself alone whilst Percy needs ambrosia or nectar, giving the former the advantage. When Magnus uses the Peace of Frey, he was the only one left holding a weapon, although it’s not clear whether he could use it to hurt the defenceless enemies if he wanted to real badly.

<p style="margin:12pt0cm;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">In an extreme universe, Percy could just choke Magnus on his own saliva. In a canon universe, Percy could simply create one of his private hurricanes, although that would tire him and Jack would eventually overcome him. If there were water nearby, though, I’ve no doubts that Percy would keep healing himself faster than Magnus and would then win.]