Artemis

Athena is a goddess for men, but Artemis isn't a feminist either

So after a long time of writers block, I decided to take up this topic: Athena is a goddess for men, but Artemis isn't a feminist either.

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Now there's a tricky history between Athena and modern day feminists. On one hand, she's a wise, all knowing, tactical, powerful deity in Greek mythology. The goddess of war and one of the most worshipped gods of the Pantheon. She's everything you'd want a female hero to be right? Wrong. Despite her idealistic strong female characteristics, she is in fact a misogynist.

My first supporting argument is the entire Medusa/Poseidon/Athena thing and how it actually speaks volumes of wether or not Athena is an ideal role model or face of feminism (hint: she's not). I already wrote something on this before so you can check it out HERE.

My second supporting argument is how Athena is always helping various men on their quests for glory, fame, riches, heroics, etc, but she has never helped the few women who did go on the quests. I do agree that there weren't many woman who did go on quests like the men did so there weren't many women Athena could help at all. But, there have got to be women like Medea that were out there but you hardly hear any stories of Athena helping them. Even if there weren't many heroic woman in Greek mythology, there are a few interactions that Athena has with woman in the myths. The Medusa one has already been listed but I'm looking at Arachne. Now I agree, Arachne was a fool for aggravating the gods by thinking she was better than them. Honestly, she was asking for it (I just found a new topic to talk about). But Athena doesn't have the best sportsmanship does she. Actually let's leave that aside. Athena has helped woman with arts and crafts like weaving. But that's only to help them be better wives. Not too feminist is it.

Third supporting argument is how even though there aren't too many reliable ancient sources out there, I'm going to have to look at the few that actually existed long ago. I'm talking epics, books, poems, plays, etc. One ancient play that I've come across while researching is the The Eumenides by Aischylos. This play was performed in Athens at the city Dionysia in 458 BC.. In it, when Athena is casting her vote in the case of Orestese, who murdered a woman: his own mother, she votes for him instead of against him because she believes that because Zeus birthed her through the skull, she has no mother, and therefore, mother has no value?:

"there is no mother who gave me birth, and I approve the masculine in everything—except for union with it—with all my heart; and I am very much my father's."

Wether or not you believe that the play is a good source is up to you, I believe that it does have a solid basis of what actually happened in Greek mythology.

There are a lot more examples of such misogyny, but I currently have no interest to go through all of the sources.

Since I came to the conclusion that Athena is serving the patriarchy and not fighting it, I wanted to look at Artemis.

The goddess of the Hunt is different from Artemis in the sense that she is much, much more supportive of women. She helps protect them and has her own group where she takes care of certain virgin woman. She most definitely is fighting the patriarchy everyday because she makes it clear that she doesn't need, nor is she interested in a man. She would have been everything that Athena couldn't be if it weren't for the fact that she isn't a feminist.

"on the basis of the equality" meaning that giving equal rights to women is about equality. Key word here. Not bringing men down to bring women up.

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I hope it's understandable why both goddesses are really bad examples of feminism either way and why it's so perplexing why people who are knowledged of basic Greek Mythology see them as good role models.

-Wirelo

Chief Journalist: Daily Olympus

The hunters of Artemis are super sexist towards men. People seem to forget that sexism(like racism) works both ways. A women can be sexist towards men, that’s what makes the hunters the biggest hypocrites on the planet. They all preach about how all men are sexist pigs, news flash women can be sexist too. They also act like women can do no wrong, there are awful women just like there is awful men. Take Brenda Spencer, she was possible the first teen mass shooter in the history of our nation, and I bet you, if they were real, they would have cheered her on, just because the 2 people she killed were men. Now don’t read this thinking I have a problem with women, I don’t, but what I do have is a problem with sexist and hypocrites of every gender.

The hunters of Artemis are cool and all but they are way to harsh I think. I like the fact that they stand up for women and fight the bad men of this world, but not all of them are bad. But if they really liked women they wouldn’t kill all the men they came across. How many Mothers missed the son, how many sisters missed there brother, how many wife’s/girlfriends missed there loving boyfriend/husband, how many daughters missed there father. And all because they accidentally came across the Hunters of Artemis. I wouldn’t be surprised if they even killed little boys(6 and under) if they found them.

Apollo vs Artemis

There are 5 sections for this post:

Powers/Associations

Without Powers

Domains

Importance

Interactions

Powers/Associations

Apollo- Sun, medicine/healing, prophecies, music, and archery

Artemis- Moon, the Hunt, nature, animals, childbirth, chastity, and archery

(*minor associations not included*)

When we compare them to each other with powers, the obvious answer would be Apollo, his powers benefit more people than Artemis's do. Artemis is the most well known virgin goddess and her services usually go to woman and children whereas Apollo may help anyone he likes. His healing powers and knowledge of medicine is universally important but the Hunt, nature, and animals is only for the few who choose to pursue.

Apollo: 1, Artemis: 0

Without Powers

If we excluded powers, then it's Artemis who gets the point. She's roamed the woods for a long time and is more level headed and thinks calmly. Both gods are extremely good at archery, but if I were to think about it, Artemis seems like she should be better. I mean, she spends more time in the woods hunting with her Hunters so I feel like Artemis should be somewhat better. But since that isn't measurable, we'll look at it another way. Apollo can take things lightly if he'd like, but he's also much more egoistical than Artemis. Meaning his anger could be the end of him. Artemis is much more strategical and has seen the dark side of the patriarchy more than anyone and has worked for so long to solve it in her own sense of justice.

Apollo: 1, Artemis: 1

Domains

Apollo's main domain is the sun while Artemis's is the Moon.

The Sun is the center source for all of the living things in the world, from the trees it raises for oxygen, to the plants for animals, the sun is the center of the food chain. Without it, there is no life.

The Moon helps birds for navigation and migration. It's very important in astrology and science but it isn't necessary for humanity.

Apollo: 2, Artemis: 1

Importance

To the Ancient Greeks, both of the deities were extremely important. But to what extent. If Apollo is the sun, and the sun is more important than the moon, then doesn't Apollo have a higher importance? If Apollo can help anyone in general with his knowledge of medicine and prophecies but Artemis only chooses to help maidens and doesn't like men, then, how is she as universally important as Apollo is? Apollo seems to have more importance.

Apollo: 3, Artemis: 1

Interactions

This one is a tie. Apollo and Artemis both helped humanity with their own powers and are cherished very highly among the gods themselves. I don't think I can find out which one is better.

Apollo: 4, Artemis: 2

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Apollo does have more points so he won. But these are the only main subheadings that I could think of, if we were to include other minor subdivisions, I think Artemis might have won. If you would like, create your own subdivisions in the comments and tell me which deity would have won for those.

Vote HERE after reading the post.

Let me know what you think about this (try to be unbiased, just cause' you like a god doesn't mean they should win any of these subdivisions)

-Wirelo

Chief Journalist: Daily Olympus

Are Artemis and her Hunters attracted to anyone? What's their sexuality?

We all know that Artemis and her Hunters swore celibacy for the rest of their lives and if anyone were to get involved in any romantic or sexual relations (mostly sexual) then Artemis wouldn't have tolerated it.

I feel it's disrespectful to assume someone's sexuality if it's very unclear what it is. But since there's a lot of speculation about this, I have to take a look.

Now, if you see a girl flirting with a boy or getting intimate with him or the other way around, you could assume that he/she is either straight or maybe bisexual. If you see a girl flirting with a girl or getting intimate with her or in the same case as a boy would with another boy, you could assume that they are lesbian/gay or maybe bisexual. The point is, there are some near to obvious tellings of a person's sexuality in a social or work place. You see day to day interactions with people of different genders.

You see how sexualities would be hard to identify if Artemis and her Hunters hunt in the woods alone and rarely have interactions with other men or woman. So this is just a bit of theorizing who they might be attracted to.

First of all, if identifying as a different gender was accepted back then (which maybe it was) then we would treat them as the gender they identify as. If Artemis's Hunters can only be woman, then if someone born a woman identifies as a man, they are a man. Period. Which means that they can not join the Hunters of Artemis. Assuming people had a say in their gender in those times of course, then every Hunter would have to identify as female. Artemis probably wouldn't have accepted anyone who identified as a male regardless of who they were born as, and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have accepted anyone who was binary as well.

Next, since we can come to the conclusion that every Hunter identifies as a female, we still have to figure out if they're straight, lesbian, bisexual, or asexual, (I am aware there are more sexualities but these are the ones with the most speculations and what applies to these would apply to others). Like I said before, the Hunters have only so much interaction with the outside world. We would have to check their interaction with each other first.

Artemis is very intolerant about intimate relations and would obviously kill the Hunter who would defy their vows. So even falling in love with each other and showing intimacy would be guaranteed to have Artemis turn you into some bear and kill you. But just because it isn't allowed doesn't mean they aren't lesbians, you can't control who someone is attracted to. But it's mentioned so many times that the Hunters were like family, they were sisters who lived together, took care of each other. All of the idealistic sibling things that usually don't always happen in real life. So I find it hard that they could be so tight in sisterhood but still have romantic feelings for each other. It's obviously possible that some are still lesbian, but I don't think it's the majority so I'm going to rule out that possibility. Bisexuality is definitely more of a possibility but still not majority in my understanding.

Now, we're going to have to focus on Artemis a bit. I would say that she isn't very fond of men, she possibly hates them. Her father's wife, Hera, was the reason that her mother was tortured for so long. Artemis looked at the struggles her mother faced giving birth to Apollo and decided she was going to be a virgin goddess because of everything that woman in those times had to go through. She may have projected her anger on Hera onto Zeus for letting her mother go through all of this stuff. Rape was very common in those times and we know how majority of the rapists in the gods' times were mostly, if not all, men. Artemis being the protector of woman (virgin woman especially) would have hated men for what they did.

But then came along Orion, he was the handsomest man ever, a great hunter, and was very respectful to Artemis. If she was straight or bisexual, then why would she not be attracted. Sure, they were great hunting buddies and great friends, but I say that she was attracted. They obviously didn't engage in sexual relationships but she was still attracted. Until Apollo tricked Artemis into killing Orion, from then on, maybe Artemis didn't want to get close to anymore men.

Remember that time when a Hunter engaged in intercourse (with consent) with another man, she was killed when Artemis came to know of it. She also killed one of her Hunters who was a rape victim, though she did kill the rapist as well. So to Artemis, it doesn't matter who you are attracted to, you do not let that be known, nor do you have sexual relationships or even those without consent.

I came to the conclusion that majority of the Hunters are straight because of the situations they are living in, some of them could be asexual. Artemis is probably asexual and is not attracted to anyone under any circumstances and if she was, she wouldn't engage in intercourse.

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I'm also aware that many say that the Hunters of Artemis could have been lesbians and that the group was a safe place for lesbians. If that is the case, (I have not researched that far) then it's very much possible. It's just that in those times, I was under the impression that men could afford to be more free of their sexualities than woman.

I also apologize if I offended anyone with a misusage of any term and I will gladly edit that out if you tell me where and why.

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Let me know if you agree with my reasoning but/or you still believe that the Hunters had a variety of sexualities. I will now rest my fingers for a while.

-Wirelo

Chief Journalist: Daily Olympus

Am I the only one who HATES the fact that Rick completely erases the fact that the Hunters Of Artemis, in the original myths, is a safe space for wlw (woman loving woman)

I personally thinks thats lesbophofibc, you could say "oh but he made them ace/aro so its still LGBTQ+ representation"

...

The only reason he made them ace/aro is cuz he didn't wanted to made them sapphic

(sapphic is a women who likes woman, either exclusively or not)

For a start, in the Titan's curse, it says "No-one, not even Apollo's kids at camp, could shoot with that much accuracy" (about the Hunters of Artemis), and Apollo's kids get their skill from their father as the Hunters get their's from training with Artemis. And Percy could tell for sure, so it must of been a significant difference. So Artemis would be ahead.

She also probably gets a lot more practice than Apollo, who's busy with all his other stuff like medicine and the sun chariot and music. Artemis goes on hunts with her Hunters mainly, and uses a bow and arrow (obviously), so she would do it a lot more because hunting is kind of her main thing...

Apollo as Lester uses a bow and arrows and a ukulele as his default weapons, which means although a bow is more of an obvious weapons rather than a ukulele which means he relies on his music aspect more, and if he was really talented with a bow he might not bring the ukulele, as compared to Artemis who always uses a bow and arrows.

So I have to write a speech about Artemis. Is the hunters part of the real myths? Or just something Rick made for his story?

Apollo and Artemis were born on Delos, an island with no roots. When they were born it became anchored where it was.

Heyo fandom!! Welcome to today's debate!! I'll be making a debate once in a few days!!! So, here's today!!

Rules:

• No profanity or insulting other users.

• Play friendly.

• Everyone has their own opinions, please respect their opinion, and so will they.

• Follow the wiki guidelines.

• Have fun!!

Todays topic for debate is: Athena and Artemis: Who's better?

So, all of you are familiar with these two virgin goddesses. One is the goddess of strategic warfare and the other is the goddess of the hunt

You are allowed to state your opinions on who is better in humanity (or goddess-ity?) or who would win in a duel.

Please remember to follow the rules and state your opinions and don't forget to have fun!!

(Just - it’s a good title okay, don’t hate me for this.)

I hear Athenas war cry in the shouts of protests, fighting a war now closer to home, I see her in the young women with picket signs clenched tightly in their fists

Hera curses the names of abusers. The ones who break families and marriages. Her voice heard in the wedding bells of young lovers.

Poseidon now resides in a beach home. Going out every night to pick the trash left by the day. Shooting daggers at the drink men letting their bottles be swept away

Persephone resisted in those who used to be so full of hope and light and are now slightly guarded. The ones with the small smile as they see the old things they loved, the ones that protect their friends with the power of hell in those eyes that have underlying kindness

I feel Hestia in the hearths of every home. When families gather together for celebrations, and stay warm together. The chestnut browns of the soft cushions laid down on the floor and the flickering sparks of the flames dancing in the fireplace providing warmth to those seated. (By @ClumsyQueen )

I see Apollo every morning lighting up the world, I hear him in the radio, bringing happiness and reassurance to others throughout music.

I sense Artemis whenever in the presence of wild. I see her in the forests, deep and dark. I see her moonlit face each time I look up the stars and the moon. I hear her in every child's first cry and the last breath of an animal before going down. The silvery moon and stars remind me of the maiden huntress everytime I gaze upon them. (By @ClumsyQueen )

I feel Hebe sitting in a playground, watching the youth of the nation play as if their lives depend on it, hoping they never loose their innocence or imagination.

Didn't Apollo say that he was born on the 7th day of the 7th month of the 7th something else. So wouldn't Artemis also be born on the 7th day of the 7th month and the 7th something else? I know this doesn't really mean anything but I was just wondering.(sorry if this a stupid question)

So, before I read Uncle Rick's books, I'd heard some Greek Myths. They were my favorite. And my favorite Gods were the Twin Archers, and Hades, but that's not what this is about.

I liked Artemis best, as she also controls the Wilderness and Animals. so, back to the point. When I first read Sea of Monsters, sorry, my teacher only had that one, so I didn't read The Lightning Thief. And then I realized that the Gods have Demigod children.

I immediately wanted to be a child of Artemis, as I liked her best. Like this post if you're with me. But then, I learned she's the God of Maidenhood, and a Virgin, so she doesn't have any kids! Great. For me, that's her problem, her relationship with men.

Imagine Apollo didn't get Artemis to kill Orion. She might have broken her oath, and would actually have descendants. But I still like her, just not the best.

We all know the gods- scummy, immortal, and annoying. But there is a question- why do we pick on specific gods, and not others?

Let's have a look at two gods who are hated TOO much and two gods who SHOULD be hated more.

Hera and Apollo

Yeah. Hera. That's right- the Queen of the Gods. Why is she here? I personally think- she's hated way too much. Her husband Zeus however, is out of the limelight. Zeus has cheated on her- so many times, it's countless. Mnemosyne, Metis, Dions, Europa, Themis, Demeter, Eurynome, Leto, blah blah blah, yet we hate her for that- Smh Smh.

Now let's talk Apollo! Many people hate him because he's really braggy and his self-esteem is high. But however, during his mortal yeet trip, he's become by far one of the best gods out there. Period.

Artemis and Athena

Prepare for hate- Artemis is one of the worst gods. Literally. I made a post talking about a story on Artemis and how bad she was by making a Greek king kill his daughter because he bragged about being a godly hunter. Well, she's a total murderer. She claims to be a "protector of Women" yet she needed a sacrifice of feminine royal blood because she was pissed by words! Really, her and the Hunters need to take a chill pill.

Now, Athena. She isn't nearly as bad as ol' Arty, but she's bad. She turned Medusa and Arachne into hideous monsters because of well- Hubris! Her own CHILDREN have hubris, yet she punishes others for it! Arachne is even worse- Athena CHALLENGED Arachne to a weaving tapestry duel, and yet when all the judges declared Arachne victorious, Athena became so full of rage, she shrank Arachne into oblivion!

Now, don't get me wrong- I'm not trying to force you- I'm just voicing out my opinion. Bye.

I went to a Latin event (Saturnalia) last year and the costume theme was “twins”. I wanted to dress up but no one else wanted to. So I started to make my costume and announced that I was going as Artemis in hopes that someone would go as Apollo. And someone actually decided to do it with me! So we went as Artemis/Diana and Apollo and won 3rd place for being unoriginal (there were 4 pairs including us). Just letting people know even though people aren’t going to read this.