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  • Leo Valdez has super fun fire powers and is a genius inventor. Apparently all da ladies luv leo.

    Nico di Angelo is the son of Hades, can shadow travel, has some sword fighting skills, and can summon zombies from the ground.

    Who will win?

    Vote for your fave here and nominate fights here.

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    • Personally, I love Leo because he's hot and a genius with technology. I mean, not that Nico isn't hot but I prefer a guy who can make stuff.

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    • Leo!

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    • excuse u we have established that leo is not hot and every single female minus his gf hate him

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    • definately nico

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    • Ugh... This is tough. I'm just always like


      LEOOOOOO NICOOOOO

      But I'd have to go for Leo. He's such a big show off and so funny! :)

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    • Nico, he can summon zombies

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    • Leo

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    • Hum, The Son of Hades,  kkkNico will.

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    • Nico ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      he can make leo to a ghost of summon strong skeleton warriors and much more

      NICO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!

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    • Nico by far!!! xD

      I both love Nico a lot more as a character (Leo can can be a bit too obnoxious at times!-_-), and I feel that Nico would win in a duel between the two, primarily because he is the more experienced combatant of the two, as well as the demigod child of a more powerful deity.

      SayuriDarling wrote: Excuse u we have established that leo is not hot and every single female minus his gf hate him

      Well, that's not entirely true, as Leo has a very good relationship with both Piper and Hazel. Otherwise though yeah, the implications are that Leo isn't particularly hot.

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    • Nico for sure!

      As a character and as a fighter, he beats Leo.

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    • Nico will win in combat

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    • Nico ftw! xD

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    • Nico for the win!

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    • Gaiuslover17 wrote:
      Personally, I love Leo because he's hot and a genius with technology. I mean, not that Nico isn't hot but I prefer a guy who can make stuff.

      U-huh? Hey, you know, when you can stop fangirling and start giving a good explanation to your statement, I'll be all ears.

      Er, forget about what I just said. Half the people are supporting Leo because he's hot. 


      On the other hand, I'd go for Nico. If you take it with sword-fighting, Nico is bound to win because he has more combat experience. And not to forget that Nico has the ability to summon the dead… 

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    • nico wins hands down

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    • Yes, people. Nico has an advantage because he can shadow travel and stuff but remember on what happened to him in The Last Olympian, he was about to pass out so I think Leo has an advantage here but they're both my baes so hopefully no one dies.

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    • ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

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    • Leo! Duh. He can tame a copper dragon, make a helecopter, and die, but get better! not to mention firey fists of doom. 

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    • Nico! Duh. He can manipulate bones, navigate his and others dreams, induce fear and death in others, intrepidly claim the fearsome darkness as his birthright! Not to mention summoning a zombie army.

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    • yeah for Team Nico!!!

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

      You guys keep mentioning Nico's Shadow Travel as an advantage. I know Shadow Travel is great, but I've wondered, can Nico Shadow Travel short distances? Throughout the series, he has only been shadow Traveling long distances- several to hundreds to thousands of miles. I know that just because it has never happened, doesn't mean Nico can't do it. But, if find it rather weird. If Nico can Shadow Travel short distances, like in battle, why hasn't he done it yet? Has it not occurred to him yet? Or is Shadow Travel only meant, for well, traveling long distances? Can Nico disappear and reappear in the shadows like Hazel does with her Mist Travel Powers? If Nico can, then it is certainly an advantage over Leo. But if he can't Shadow Travel very short distances (Appearing and Disappearing instantly Like Hazel), while it can't be consider as an advantage, since it would be useless in battle. So, can Nico, Shadow Travel very short distances?

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    • I personaly think Nico is cute and forgive me for saying so but also sexy so i pick.........Nico

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    • Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

      You guys keep mentioning Nico's Shadow Travel as an advantage. I know Shadow Travel is great, but I've wondered, can Nico Shadow Travel short distances? Throughout the series, he has only been shadow Traveling long distances- several to hundreds to thousands of miles. I know that just because it has never happened, doesn't mean Nico can't do it. But, if find it rather weird. If Nico can Shadow Travel short distances, like in battle, why hasn't he done it yet? Has it not occurred to him yet? Or is Shadow Travel only meant, for well, traveling long distances? Can Nico disappear and reappear in the shadows like Hazel does with her Mist Travel Powers? If Nico can, then it is certainly an advantage over Leo. But if he can't Shadow Travel very short distances (Appearing and Disappearing instantly Like Hazel), while it can't be consider as an advantage, since it would be useless in battle. So, can Nico, Shadow Travel very short distances?

      If Nico can shadow-travel long distances, I see no reason why he cannot cover short distances as well, disappearing and reappearing. It may be that this idea has never really occurred to him, in that way. 

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    • In one-on-one combat definitely Nico

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    • -Leo!!-

      *Cough Cough*

      I mean Nico of course!!

      Man this is hard!!

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    • TheViralSorceress wrote:

      Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

      You guys keep mentioning Nico's Shadow Travel as an advantage. I know Shadow Travel is great, but I've wondered, can Nico Shadow Travel short distances? Throughout the series, he has only been shadow Traveling long distances- several to hundreds to thousands of miles. I know that just because it has never happened, doesn't mean Nico can't do it. But, if find it rather weird. If Nico can Shadow Travel short distances, like in battle, why hasn't he done it yet? Has it not occurred to him yet? Or is Shadow Travel only meant, for well, traveling long distances? Can Nico disappear and reappear in the shadows like Hazel does with her Mist Travel Powers? If Nico can, then it is certainly an advantage over Leo. But if he can't Shadow Travel very short distances (Appearing and Disappearing instantly Like Hazel), while it can't be consider as an advantage, since it would be useless in battle. So, can Nico, Shadow Travel very short distances?

      If Nico can shadow-travel long distances, I see no reason why he cannot cover short distances as well, disappearing and reappearing. It may be that this idea has never really occurred to him, in that way. 

      Well, then that means it cannot be considered an advantage for Nico then in battle, since it hasn't really occurred to him yet.

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    • ^^It might occur to him mid-battle though! xD

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote:
      ^^It might occur to him mid-battle though! xD

      The chances of this suddenly occurring to him in this in battle may be quite low. 

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    • Then perhaps it has occurred to him at some point shortly before the battle.

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    • Nico Would Win

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    • TheViralSorceress wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote:
      ^^It might occur to him mid-battle though! xD

      The chances of this suddenly occurring to him in this in battle may be quite low. 

      Exactly. Which why I think Shadow Travel can't be considered as an advantage for Nico in battle.

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    • ^^^Not necessarily, as there is still the possibility of it occurring to Nico.

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^^Not necessarily, as there is still the possibility of it occurring to Nico.

      Yeah, but after Nico using Shadow Travel from The Last Olympian and on, how can Nico not used it for short distances, or for more complex reasons? The Seven, excluding Percabeth, got to have a variety of new powers throughout the series,and all of them gained/enhanced their powers in less than a year. Nico has had it for several years, and cannot improve his use of it, besides going longer distances?? Anyways, I think I am taking this to seriously. But, I think we really shouldn't considered this as an advantage, unless you want to speculate about it.

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    • I LOVE BOTH




      • Team Leo*
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    • Ok. So, I can understand people liking Leo better ( though I like Nico more), but people actually think Leo could beat Nico? It's literally almost IMPOSSIBLE.


      Disadvantages of:Leo: he has Fire powers which, would effect Nico. WOULD, mind you. Because Leo would be to busy fighting of Nico's Skeletons or having to get through his bone armor. And Since Leo isn't shown to do swordplay, he would be relying on his powers to do either task I mentioned. His Fire Powers to be exact. And bone melts at  1381 deg. Celsius or 2517.8 deg. Fahrenheit. That's hotter than When lava first breaks through the surface of the Earth, it is an extremely hot liquid. On average, fresh lava can be between 1,300° F and 2,200° F! Depending on its exact temperature, fresh lava usually glows either orange/red (cooler) or white (hotter). Source:http://wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-hot-is-lava/ So yeah, melting Nico's skeletons will be really difficult. Also, aren't they super humanly strong and wasn't that bone cage he made hard for an immortal to break? So it might take even more heat. So Leo's biggest weakness is his reliance on powers( Although I'm to lazy to bring up his technokinesis) and his lack of physical power as well as How easy it is for Nico to simply overwhelm him.

      Disadvantages of Nico: Now, Nico is a different story. His biggest weakness is his emotions. His being gay. STOP FOR A SECOND. Being Gay is not a weakness in its self, but people can use it to hurt you or your feelings, that is . Do Not start a Gay War on this thread. Just don't . Now, though this a weakness, Leo is not an opponent to exploit this correctly. He is a generally nice person and although he is clever, he is not clever In the evil, conniving way(Ex. Octavian). So Leo can't defeat him using the verbal, clever tactic. Although, I wonder if Leo could throw tools strong enough to break bones.(Or (in essence) Nico's skeletal warriors)  Time for More research!

      Source:http://www.georgiamountainkravmaga.com/amounts-of-force-needed-to           COMMONLY ACCEPTED AMOUNTS OF FORCE(?) TO CAUSE DAMAGE TO A HUMAN  3. Throat – Crushing the human throat takes roughly that same amount of pressure as crushing an empty soda can. 4. Collar bone – Approximately 8 lbs of force to snap this bone. 5. Elbow joint – Breaking the elbow joint take between 5-8 lbs of force. 6. Knee joint – Putting direct force against the joint in the knee can be devastating, Breaking this joint takes approximately 15 lbs of pressure                                                                                                                                                I stop at 15 pounds because Leo is pretty scrawny so even though he could probably lift more he could THROW much more, or not accurately, at least.                                                         Gods now I keep imagining Leo whipping out a screwdriver and throwing it quoit-style(HoH reference!)

      BACK ON TOPIC1!11!1

      All in all I think I'm gonna have to go with Nico ftw, I tried to be as non- biased as possible, even though All da ladies luv Leo( HoH reference).

      Time to actually GO vote.

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    • ^^How could someone use Nico's homosexuality against him though? I mean it's like like Leo could seduce him mid-battle, as Nico is taken, plus I doubt that Leo is his type... What exactly did you mean? Just curious

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    • TheFallOutLlama
      TheFallOutLlama removed this reply because:
      04:04, June 1, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      Ok. So, I can understand people liking Leo better ( though I like Nico more), but people actually think Leo could beat Nico? It's literally almost IMPOSSIBLE.

      All in all I think I'm gonna have to go with Nico ftw, I tried to be as non- biased as possible, even though All da ladies luv Leo( HoH reference).

      Exactly. Every single person who's supporting Leo is supporting him for his hotness(and they are da ladies who luv Leo!). 

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    • I will always vote for Nico, he's so powerful! His only weaknesses would be his emotions, past, and family. Leo is a really nice guy, so he would never hurt Nico emotionally. Nico can summon skeleton armies and open up pits in the ground that lead to the Underworld, Leo can throw fire. Nico has been proven and shown to be great with melee combat (fighting with a sword/dagger/close ranged weapon), but we've never seen Leo use a weapon like that in battle. A scrawny child of Hephaestus with technokinesis and pyrokinesis could never beat the Ghost King in battle. That's just that.

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    • Um...8th Hero of Olympus, just because he was close with Jason and Piper doesn't mean he's hot. Piper's like his sister, and Hazel only was close to him because he was basically her old boyfriend from the 1940's...what was his name....Danny? Whatever the case, that's literally the only reason why she gave him so much attention in the first place.


      Doesn't mean they found him hot. Maybe Hazel, but again, that's because he looks like Danny. He's not hot. We don't even know if Calypso finds him hot. She just likes him for his personality. That's my theory, at least. 

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    • ^^It's Sammy, not Danny. 

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    • Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

      You guys keep mentioning Nico's Shadow Travel as an advantage. I know Shadow Travel is great, but I've wondered, can Nico Shadow Travel short distances? Throughout the series, he has only been shadow Traveling long distances- several to hundreds to thousands of miles. I know that just because it has never happened, doesn't mean Nico can't do it. But, if find it rather weird. If Nico can Shadow Travel short distances, like in battle, why hasn't he done it yet? Has it not occurred to him yet? Or is Shadow Travel only meant, for well, traveling long distances? Can Nico disappear and reappear in the shadows like Hazel does with her Mist Travel Powers? If Nico can, then it is certainly an advantage over Leo. But if he can't Shadow Travel very short distances (Appearing and Disappearing instantly Like Hazel), while it can't be consider as an advantage, since it would be useless in battle. So, can Nico, Shadow Travel very short distances?

      Nico can travel anywhere he wants to with shadow travel. He mainly uses it for long distances though because if you're going a short distance, then it wouldn't be worth wasting the energy to shadow travel when you could just walk/run there by yourself.

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    • True, it isn't worth the energy even if he can shadow-travel short distances 

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^How could someone use Nico's homosexuality against him though? I mean it's like like Leo could seduce him mid-battle, as Nico is taken, plus I doubt that Leo is his type... What exactly did you mean? Just curious

      I meant that someone like Octavian could just bully and beat him down(verbally) and bash him until

      A.) he breaks down and just gives up Or B.) He is thrown into a rage, being so mad. When people are mad they don't think(or aim) correctly and so his attacks would be off and probably miss.

      Also there is a direct link between your physical and your emotional state. So when you're mad or cared or hurt your also physically weakened ex. People with depression can be very Aay and not want to get up or eat or go to work/school.

      TheFallOutLlama wrote:

      Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

      You guys keep mentioning Nico's Shadow Travel as an advantage. I know Shadow Travel is great, but I've wondered, can Nico Shadow Travel short distances? Throughout the series, he has only been shadow Traveling long distances- several to hundreds to thousands of miles. I know that just because it has never happened, doesn't mean Nico can't do it. But, if find it rather weird. If Nico can Shadow Travel short distances, like in battle, why hasn't he done it yet? Has it not occurred to him yet? Or is Shadow Travel only meant, for well, traveling long distances? Can Nico disappear and reappear in the shadows like Hazel does with her Mist Travel Powers? If Nico can, then it is certainly an advantage over Leo. But if he can't Shadow Travel very short distances (Appearing and Disappearing instantly Like Hazel), while it can't be consider as an advantage, since it would be useless in battle. So, can Nico, Shadow Travel very short distances?

      Nico can travel anywhere he wants to with shadow travel. He mainly uses it for long distances though because if you're going a short distance, then it wouldn't be worth wasting the energy to shadow travel when you could just walk/run there by yourself.

      We'll I don't think they mean THAT short of a distance just shorter than halfway across the world, Like from Cleveland to Columbus. Not Short enough to run or walk, but not so energy draining either. Plus it's kinda hard to walk or run when your in the middle Of fighting the Super-sized McShizzle. Plus, Leo IS pretty fast from what we've seen.

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    • TheFallOutLlama wrote:

      Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

      You guys keep mentioning Nico's Shadow Travel as an advantage. I know Shadow Travel is great, but I've wondered, can Nico Shadow Travel short distances? Throughout the series, he has only been shadow Traveling long distances- several to hundreds to thousands of miles. I know that just because it has never happened, doesn't mean Nico can't do it. But, if find it rather weird. If Nico can Shadow Travel short distances, like in battle, why hasn't he done it yet? Has it not occurred to him yet? Or is Shadow Travel only meant, for well, traveling long distances? Can Nico disappear and reappear in the shadows like Hazel does with her Mist Travel Powers? If Nico can, then it is certainly an advantage over Leo. But if he can't Shadow Travel very short distances (Appearing and Disappearing instantly Like Hazel), while it can't be consider as an advantage, since it would be useless in battle. So, can Nico, Shadow Travel very short distances?

      Nico can travel anywhere he wants to with shadow travel. He mainly uses it for long distances though because if you're going a short distance, then it wouldn't be worth wasting the energy to shadow travel when you could just walk/run there by yourself.

      Which basically confirms of what I was saying. Shadow Travel cannot be considered as an advantage for Nico over Leo in battle, because, he can't use it. Plus, just because you can walk/run into battle without the use of Shadow Travel, doesn't mean Shadow Travel isn't useful or a waste of energy. Look at Hazel. She used Mist Travel in The Final Battle,and was extremely useful. Why didn't she run into battle without it? Cause it's better to be hidden/invisible from your enemies, and appear at a moment they might not expect; And yes, I know Hazel was fighting against the giants, but let's not underestimate Leo either, who is an extremely powerful demigod in his own right, so if Nico could use Shadow Travel in battle, or the idea occurred to him that he can use it for very short distances, he would definitely use it.

      Plus, it's worth being invisible and defeating the opponent by surprise (Like Annabeth with her Cap and Hazel with Her Mist Travel), then being visible and wasting time and energy (Summoning Bones, Skeletons, which takes more energy than Shadow Travel, since Nico would have to bring multiple skeletons and not a few, and would be using his powers for a much longer time), AND being an easier target. (For Example, if Nico isn't using Shadow Travel, the he is already an easier target, and it's more likely that he would get hit by Leo's Flames).

      Anyway, if Nico could use Shadow Travel in battle, that would be great, but sadly, I don't think that's possible.

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    • Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      TheFallOutLlama wrote:

      Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

      You guys keep mentioning Nico's Shadow Travel as an advantage. I know Shadow Travel is great, but I've wondered, can Nico Shadow Travel short distances? Throughout the series, he has only been shadow Traveling long distances- several to hundreds to thousands of miles. I know that just because it has never happened, doesn't mean Nico can't do it. But, if find it rather weird. If Nico can Shadow Travel short distances, like in battle, why hasn't he done it yet? Has it not occurred to him yet? Or is Shadow Travel only meant, for well, traveling long distances? Can Nico disappear and reappear in the shadows like Hazel does with her Mist Travel Powers? If Nico can, then it is certainly an advantage over Leo. But if he can't Shadow Travel very short distances (Appearing and Disappearing instantly Like Hazel), while it can't be consider as an advantage, since it would be useless in battle. So, can Nico, Shadow Travel very short distances?
      Nico can travel anywhere he wants to with shadow travel. He mainly uses it for long distances though because if you're going a short distance, then it wouldn't be worth wasting the energy to shadow travel when you could just walk/run there by yourself.

      Which basically confirms of what I was saying. Shadow Travel cannot be considered as an advantage for Nico over Leo in battle, because, he can't use it. Plus, just because you can walk/run into battle without the use of Shadow Travel, doesn't mean Shadow Travel isn't useful or a waste of energy. Look at Hazel. She used Mist Travel in The Final Battle,and was extremely useful. Why didn't she run into battle without it? Cause it's better to be hidden/invisible from your enemies, and appear at a moment they might not expect; And yes, I know Hazel was fighting against the giants, but let's not underestimate Leo either, who is an extremely powerful demigod in his own right, so if Nico could use Shadow Travel in battle, or the idea occurred to him that he can use it for very short distances, he would definitely use it.

      Plus, it's worth being invisible and defeating the opponent by surprise (Like Annabeth with her Cap and Hazel with Her Mist Travel), then being visible and wasting time and energy (Summoning Bones, Skeletons, which takes more energy than Shadow Travel, since Nico would have to bring multiple skeletons and not a few, and would be using his powers for a much longer time), AND being an easier target. (For Example, if Nico isn't using Shadow Travel, the he is already an easier target, and it's more likely that he would get hit by Leo's Flames).

      Anyway, if Nico could use Shadow Travel in battle, that would be great, but sadly, I don't think that's possible.

      I agree that Nico probably wouldn't use shadow travel in battle because it wastes too much energy, but it was never said that summoning skeletons takes more energy than shadow travel. In the Second Titan War, he summoned a skeleton army to help the Campers defeat the Titans. And even after that he was still fighting with his sword. In no world ever would he use that large of an army against Leo, so he would still have plenty of energy after summoning an army. He would have enough strength to shadow travel, but it wouldn'0t be very efficient because by the time he had shadow traveled, he would be in about the same state as when they returned from Greece; fading out of existence. Shadow traveling a few yards, and shadow traveling across the world don't take the same amount of energy, but with him summoning skeletons, fighting with his sword, and shadow traveling it would take a lot off him. He would be an easier target, but I don't think he would use shadow travel since he already knows the risks and possible consequences.

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    • TheFallOutLlama wrote:
      Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      TheFallOutLlama wrote:


      Erick.baez.773 wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of energy out of Nico, as he can shadow-travel hundreds of miles away if he needs to, making Leo unable to exploit this temporary weakness.

      You guys keep mentioning Nico's Shadow Travel as an advantage. I know Shadow Travel is great, but I've wondered, can Nico Shadow Travel short distances? Throughout the series, he has only been shadow Traveling long distances- several to hundreds to thousands of miles. I know that just because it has never happened, doesn't mean Nico can't do it. But, if find it rather weird. If Nico can Shadow Travel short distances, like in battle, why hasn't he done it yet? Has it not occurred to him yet? Or is Shadow Travel only meant, for well, traveling long distances? Can Nico disappear and reappear in the shadows like Hazel does with her Mist Travel Powers? If Nico can, then it is certainly an advantage over Leo. But if he can't Shadow Travel very short distances (Appearing and Disappearing instantly Like Hazel), while it can't be consider as an advantage, since it would be useless in battle. So, can Nico, Shadow Travel very short distances?
      Nico can travel anywhere he wants to with shadow travel. He mainly uses it for long distances though because if you're going a short distance, then it wouldn't be worth wasting the energy to shadow travel when you could just walk/run there by yourself.
      Which basically confirms of what I was saying. Shadow Travel cannot be considered as an advantage for Nico over Leo in battle, because, he can't use it. Plus, just because you can walk/run into battle without the use of Shadow Travel, doesn't mean Shadow Travel isn't useful or a waste of energy. Look at Hazel. She used Mist Travel in The Final Battle,and was extremely useful. Why didn't she run into battle without it? Cause it's better to be hidden/invisible from your enemies, and appear at a moment they might not expect; And yes, I know Hazel was fighting against the giants, but let's not underestimate Leo either, who is an extremely powerful demigod in his own right, so if Nico could use Shadow Travel in battle, or the idea occurred to him that he can use it for very short distances, he would definitely use it.

      Plus, it's worth being invisible and defeating the opponent by surprise (Like Annabeth with her Cap and Hazel with Her Mist Travel), then being visible and wasting time and energy (Summoning Bones, Skeletons, which takes more energy than Shadow Travel, since Nico would have to bring multiple skeletons and not a few, and would be using his powers for a much longer time), AND being an easier target. (For Example, if Nico isn't using Shadow Travel, the he is already an easier target, and it's more likely that he would get hit by Leo's Flames).

      Anyway, if Nico could use Shadow Travel in battle, that would be great, but sadly, I don't think that's possible.

      I agree that Nico probably wouldn't use shadow travel in battle because it wastes too much energy, but it was never said that summoning skeletons takes more energy than shadow travel. In the Second Titan War, he summoned a skeleton army to help the Campers defeat the Titans. And even after that he was still fighting with his sword. In no world ever would he use that large of an army against Leo, so he would still have plenty of energy after summoning an army. He would have enough strength to shadow travel, but it wouldn'0t be very efficient because by the time he had shadow traveled, he would be in about the same state as when they returned from Greece; fading out of existence. Shadow traveling a few yards, and shadow traveling across the world don't take the same amount of energy, but with him summoning skeletons, fighting with his sword, and shadow traveling it would take a lot off him. He would be an easier target, but I don't think he would use shadow travel since he already knows the risks and possible consequences.

      Once again he doesn't have to go so far and therefore it would use a lot less energy. Like just using it to disappear and reappear ( So only 20 meters or so)  but not those hundreds of miles he has Shadow Traveled in the past. Like how hazel uses the mist to disappear and reappear.

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    • Exactly. That's why I was saying that Summoning the Dead would take more energy than Shadow Traveling very short distances for Nico,and would be unwise for him not to use Shadow Travel. But since that idea hasn't occurred to Nico yet, Nico is a very easy target.

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    • Leo 4Eva! Also Nico 💗percy so NO 

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    • Nico! So what if he's gay?

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    • Poseidon Kid73 wrote:
      Leo 4Eva! Also Nico 💗percy so NO 

      why are you saying that Nico would lose in a fight just because he had a crush on percy?

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    • TheFallOutLlama wrote:
      Poseidon Kid73 wrote:
      Leo 4Eva! Also Nico 💗percy so NO 
      why are you saying that Nico would lose in a fight just because he had a crush on percy?

      Some people.....

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    • leo definitely

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    • Poseidon Kid73 wrote: Leo 4Eva! Also Nico 💗percy so NO 

      HEY! Enough with the homophobia!!! -_-

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    • You shouldn't judge people by their sexuality!

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote:

      Poseidon Kid73 wrote: Leo 4Eva! Also Nico 💗percy so NO 

      HEY! Enough with the homophobia!!! -_-

      Exactly what I was trying to say! Why would anyone think anyone inferior because of their sexuality?!

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    • Also on a side note Nico already has  a boyfriend so the chances are slim that Nico will be 'infatuated' towards Leo during a battle. Plus handsomness isn't one of Leo's traits.

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    • ^^^^ This I seriously cant imagine Leo triying to seduce Nico in a battle. Really, Nico being gay is not an advantage to Leo.

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    • Since when has being attractive in battle ever worked unless you were a child of Aphrodite or a moron like Leo during TLH when fighting Khione.

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    • SayuriDarling wrote:
      Since when has being attractive in battle ever worked unless you were a child of Aphrodite or a moron like Leo during TLH when fighting Khione.

      Totally true!

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    • BenBFF wrote:
      Also on a side note Nico already has  a boyfriend so the chances are slim that Nico will be 'infatuated' towards Leo during a battle. Plus handsomness isn't one of Leo's traits.

      As I said earlier in reply to 8th

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote:
      ^^How could someone use Nico's homosexuality against him though? I mean it's like like Leo could seduce him mid-battle, as Nico is taken, plus I doubt that Leo is his type... What exactly did you mean? Just curious


      Being gay in itself is not a weakness. I was saying that someone could bash him with homophobic words and make fun of him, not tthat somebody would seduce him, and certainly not Leo. I meant that someone more like Octavian could just bully and beat him down(verbally) and bash him until

      A.) he breaks down and just gives up Or B.) He is thrown into a rage, being so mad. When people are mad they don't think(or aim) correctly and so his attacks would be off and probably miss.

      Also there is a direct link between your physical and your emotional state. So when you're mad or cared or hurt your also physically weakened ex. People with depression can be very lazy and not want to get up or eat or go to work/school.

      But once again Leo is not capable of that level of meaness(is that a word) and manipulation. As I said earlier, Leo is to nice and kind to do this, but In theory, against a more evil opponent it would be possible.

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    • Why would someone be so cruel to use his sexuality against him? Most importantly, why would Leo do that?! In the last book, Nico is hinted that he is either in a relationship with Will, or they're crushing on hard. If Nico's set on Will, then why would it become a problem in the first place?

      @Poseidon Kid73 STAHP HATING.

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    • Bramblestar2521 wrote:
      Why would someone be so cruel to use his sexuality against him? Most importantly, why would Leo do that?! In the last book, Nico is hinted that he is either in a relationship with Will, or they're crushing on hard. If Nico's set on Will, then why would it become a problem in the first place?
      @Poseidon Kid73 STAHP HATING.

      that is so true

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    • I love Leo but I thinkNico would win

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    • AmberHunter wrote:
      I love Leo but I thinkNico would win

      Yes, he will win

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    • They're my favorites xD Valdangelo <3

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    • nico i mean as much me leo have like class clown and the love foir fire and building and flirting with girls 24/7 nico is a much better fighter and powerful 

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    • Leo Valdez! He is so intelligent, I am sure he would build just the right machine to take down Nico.

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    • Nico di Angelo! His experience and power, as well as his infernally fearsome aura would make him more than Leo can handle!

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote: Nico di Angelo! His experience and power, as well as his infernally fearsome aura would make him more than Leo can handle!

      Leo can just stand at a safe distance and shoot his fire, though.

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    • ^^^Nico can just stand at a safe distance and generate a mighty earthquake though.

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: Nico di Angelo! His experience and power, as well as his infernally fearsome aura would make him more than Leo can handle!

      Leo can just stand at a safe distance and shoot his fire, though.

      Ummm...There is now safe distance from Skeletal warriors who can only be defeated by a child of Hades(Like the Once when Percy told Nico about Bianca). And as I said waaaaaay back, Nico has the advantage against fire because: 


      Disadvantages of:Leo: he has Fire powers which, would effect Nico. WOULD, mind you. Because Leo would be to busy fighting of Nico's Skeletons or having to get through his bone armor. And Since Leo isn't shown to do swordplay, he would be relying on his powers to do either task I mentioned. His Fire Powers to be exact. And bone melts at  1381 deg. Celsius or 2517.8 deg. Fahrenheit. That's hotter than When lava first breaks through the surface of the Earth, it is an extremely hot liquid. On average, fresh lava can be between 1,300° F and 2,200° F! Depending on its exact temperature, fresh lava usually glows either orange/red (cooler) or white (hotter). Source:http://wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-hot-is-lava/ So yeah, melting Nico's skeletons will be really difficult. Also, aren't they super humanly strong and wasn't that bone cage he made hard for an immortal to break? So it might take even more heat. So Leo's biggest weakness is his reliance on powers( Although I'm to lazy to bring up his technokinesis) and his lack of physical power as well as How easy it is for Nico to simply overwhelm him.

      Leo probably couldn't throw tools strong enough to break bones.(Or (in essence) Nico's skeletal warriors)

      Source:http://www.georgiamountainkravmaga.com/amounts-of-force-needed-to           COMMONLY ACCEPTED AMOUNTS OF FORCE(?) TO CAUSE DAMAGE TO A HUMAN  3. Throat – Crushing the human throat takes roughly that same amount of pressure as crushing an empty soda can. 4. Collar bone – Approximately 8 lbs of force to snap this bone. 5. Elbow joint – Breaking the elbow joint take between 5-8 lbs of force. 6. Knee joint – Putting direct force against the joint in the knee can be devastating, Breaking this joint takes approximately 15 lbs of pressure                                                                                                                                                 I stop at 15 pounds because Leo is pretty scrawny so even though he could probably lift more he could not THROW much more, or not accurately, at least. Gods now I keep imagining Leo whipping out a screwdriver and throwing it quoit-style(HoH reference!)

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^^Nico can just stand at a safe distance and generate a mighty earthquake though.

      I don't think an earthquake is going to do much good if it is directed at someone who is on a flying dragon.

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    • ^^^This is a fight btw Leo and Nico, without the involvement of outside parties (so no Festus for Leo, and no Hellhounds for Nico), as adding them would give one side an unfair advantage. And, in that case, an earthquake against an earthbound Leo would be extremely effective! xD

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    • A mighty enough earthquake to knock Leo off his feet (which if I recall correctly we've never seen Nico do) will drain Nico leaving open to Leo's attacks though.

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    • Nico won the original fight, but I'm unlocking old fights. Go crazy.

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    • I have fond memories of this thread. This is the thread I made my Riordan wiki bow.

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: Nico di Angelo! His experience and power, as well as his infernally fearsome aura would make him more than Leo can handle!

      Leo can just stand at a safe distance and shoot his fire, though.
      Ummm...There is no safe distance from Skeletal warriors who can only be defeated by a child of Hades(Like the Once when Percy told Nico about Bianca). And as I said waaaaaay back, Nico has the advantage against fire because: 


      Disadvantages of:Leo: he has Fire powers which, would effect Nico. WOULD, mind you. Because Leo would be to busy fighting of Nico's Skeletons or having to get through his bone armor. And Since Leo isn't shown to do swordplay, he would be relying on his powers to do either task I mentioned. His Fire Powers to be exact. And bone melts at  1381 deg. Celsius or 2517.8 deg. Fahrenheit. That's hotter than When lava first breaks through the surface of the Earth, it is an extremely hot liquid. On average, fresh lava can be between 1,300° F and 2,200° F! Depending on its exact temperature, fresh lava usually glows either orange/red (cooler) or white (hotter). Source:http://wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-hot-is-lava/ So yeah, melting Nico's skeletons will be really difficult. Also, aren't they super humanly strong and wasn't that bone cage he made hard for an immortal to break? So it might take even more heat. So Leo's biggest weakness is his reliance on powers( Although I'm to lazy to bring up his technokinesis) and his lack of physical power as well as How easy it is for Nico to simply overwhelm him.

      Leo probably couldn't throw tools strong enough to break bones.(Or (in essence) Nico's skeletal warriors)

      Source:http://www.georgiamountainkravmaga.com/amounts-of-force-needed-to           COMMONLY ACCEPTED AMOUNTS OF FORCE(?) TO CAUSE DAMAGE TO A HUMAN  3. Throat – Crushing the human throat takes roughly that same amount of pressure as crushing an empty soda can. 4. Collar bone – Approximately 8 lbs of force to snap this bone. 5. Elbow joint – Breaking the elbow joint take between 5-8 lbs of force. 6. Knee joint – Putting direct force against the joint in the knee can be devastating, Breaking this joint takes approximately 15 lbs of pressure                                                                                                                                                 I stop at 15 pounds because Leo is pretty scrawny so even though he could probably lift more he could not THROW much more, or not accurately, at least. Gods now I keep imagining Leo whipping out a screwdriver and throwing it quoit-style(HoH reference!)

      I'll just repost this for everyone to see Nico wins.

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    • nico!!!!

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    • Unfortunately, no skeletal warriors for Nico. 😈😈😈

      And I quote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^^This is a fight btw Leo and Nico, without the involvement of outside parties

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      Unfortunately, no skeletal warriors for Nico. 😈😈😈

      And I quote:


      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^^This is a fight btw Leo and Nico, without the involvement of outside parties

      Yes, but since it's a fight between them, they should be able to use their abilities? So Nico can summon hellhounds and his undead army, and Leo can build/do whatever his powers allow him to do. 

      My vote's for Nico, seeing as he is a child of the Big Three. 

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    • Unfortunately, the undead warriors are an outside party, so none of them for Njco. No hellhounds either. But still, Nico takes thus quite comfortably.

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    • Yes, but Nico should be allowed to summon them, as it is his power. 

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    • yes, but they are still an outside party because they are actually under his control, not a power but under his control, like summoning, re animating,  yes, but they are only under his control as the ghost king, if he wasnt the ghost king, summoning yeah, but summoning Ghost warriors, they are only under his control because of his title hope that makes sense

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    • ^ Exactly, like if Nico is allowed to call on the undead to fight for him, then Leo might as well have Festus, and Percy can have Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack. They are all outside parties and would tilt the fight in the favor of someone, so no hellhounds or sparti for Nico. End of Story.

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    • Exactly^, all of these fights are one-on-one, so it brings it into combat. Unless Nico comes prepared with bone armor, Leo can melt him down.

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    • Leo

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    • Ah, I like Leo, quite frankly more than Nico but I going to have to put aside my bias and say Nico.

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    • Leo will win because leo will send a wall of fire in front of nico. Nico will be blinded and distracted by the smoke. Then Leo will throw grenades over the wall of fire killing nico.

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    • Nico can raise earth shields and go underground to avoid those.

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    • Ea225225 wrote:
      Leo will win because leo will send a wall of fire in front of nico. Nico will be blinded and distracted by the smoke. Then Leo will throw grenades over the wall of fire killing nico.

      Nico's probably not just going to stand there and allow Leo to throw fire at him. 

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    • ^ My point exactly.

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      Unfortunately, the undead warriors are an outside party, so none of them for Njco. No hellhounds either. But still, Nico takes thus quite comfortably.

      No actually, Outside parties are creatures that act as pets or companions o the character and have a mind of their own, such as Ms.O-Leary, Pegasi, Hellhounds,Or Giant Flying Metal Dragon Sky Boats.

      That said, Nico summoning skeletal warriors are completely aloud, they are bound to him by service, not companionship, and have no choice but to fight for him. Think of them as if they are not really living, more like they're animated, the same way Hazel can cause gems to attack, they're not really alive, they just do whatever they are told o do. Now if Nico tried to summon Minos or Cerberus, that would be an outside party, as both are completely conscious and have a mind of their own, and are more bound to his Father rather than Nico himself. 

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      Unfortunately, the undead warriors are an outside party, so none of them for Njco. No hellhounds either. But still, Nico takes thus quite comfortably.
      No actually, Outside parties are creatures that act as pets or companions o the character and have a mind of their own, such as Ms.O-Leary, Pegasi, Hellhounds,Or Giant Flying Metal Dragon Sky Boats.

      That said, Nico summoning skeletal warriors are completely aloud, they are bound to him by service, not companionship, and have no choice but to fight for him. Think of them as if they are not really living, more like they're animated, the same way Hazel can cause gems to attack, they're not really alive, they just do whatever they are told o do. Now if Nico tried to summon Minos or Cerberus, that would be an outside party, as both are completely conscious and have a mind of their own, and are more bound to his Father rather than Nico himself.  

      He's right

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    • Leo is a good fighter and a strong demigod, but Nico turned a living Roman boy into a ghost without even needing to touch him, or say a word. I can't think of any human demigod that could fight that sort of power, if Nico was angry enough to use it. Plus, Nico only started fading after that because of the long shadow-travel trips *with passengers* he had been making on top of it. Ordinarily, summoning skeleton armies don't seem to tire Nico much, so I doubt making a ghost would. So, Nico is my winner here. ^.^

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      Unfortunately, the undead warriors are an outside party, so none of them for Njco. No hellhounds either. But still, Nico takes thus quite comfortably.

      No actually, Outside parties are creatures that act as pets or companions o the character and have a mind of their own, such as Ms.O-Leary, Pegasi, Hellhounds,Or Giant Flying Metal Dragon Sky Boats.

      That said, Nico summoning skeletal warriors are completely aloud, they are bound to him by service, not companionship, and have no choice but to fight for him. Think of them as if they are not really living, more like they're animated, the same way Hazel can cause gems to attack, they're not really alive, they just do whatever they are told o do. Now if Nico tried to summon Minos or Cerberus, that would be an outside party, as both are completely conscious and have a mind of their own, and are more bound to his Father rather than Nico himself. 

      The skeletal warriors are an outside party cause they are bound to service. It's like having a pet, they will never defy you (as long as they understand you) and would do your will without hesitation. All fights are meant to be one on one which would be defied if the skeletal warriors take part. I see your point, though.

      With or without the skeletal warriors Nico takes this quite comfortably.

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      Unfortunately, the undead warriors are an outside party, so none of them for Njco. No hellhounds either. But still, Nico takes thus quite comfortably.
      No actually, Outside parties are creatures that act as pets or companions o the character and have a mind of their own, such as Ms.O-Leary, Pegasi, Hellhounds,Or Giant Flying Metal Dragon Sky Boats.

      That said, Nico summoning skeletal warriors are completely aloud, they are bound to him by service, not companionship, and have no choice but to fight for him. Think of them as if they are not really living, more like they're animated, the same way Hazel can cause gems to attack, they're not really alive, they just do whatever they are told o do. Now if Nico tried to summon Minos or Cerberus, that would be an outside party, as both are completely conscious and have a mind of their own, and are more bound to his Father rather than Nico himself. 

      The skeletal warriors are an outside party cause they are bound to service. It's like having a pet, they will never defy you (as long as they understand you) and would do your will without hesitation. All fights are meant to be one on one which would be defied if the skeletal warriors take part. I see your point, though.

      With or without the skeletal warriors Nico takes this quite comfortably.

      That's the point Oceanhalo was making... that the skeletal warriors do not count as outside parties because they are bound to Nico's service. They aren't pets, they're undead things commanded by Nico's will. They're incapable of defying him, unlike a pet. 

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    • Didn't that Spartoi Frank summoned in SoN function somewhat on his own?

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    • Warriorfan123 wrote:

      Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      Unfortunately, the undead warriors are an outside party, so none of them for Njco. No hellhounds either. But still, Nico takes thus quite comfortably.
      No actually, Outside parties are creatures that act as pets or companions o the character and have a mind of their own, such as Ms.O-Leary, Pegasi, Hellhounds,Or Giant Flying Metal Dragon Sky Boats.

      That said, Nico summoning skeletal warriors are completely aloud, they are bound to him by service, not companionship, and have no choice but to fight for him. Think of them as if they are not really living, more like they're animated, the same way Hazel can cause gems to attack, they're not really alive, they just do whatever they are told o do. Now if Nico tried to summon Minos or Cerberus, that would be an outside party, as both are completely conscious and have a mind of their own, and are more bound to his Father rather than Nico himself. 

      The skeletal warriors are an outside party cause they are bound to service. It's like having a pet, they will never defy you (as long as they understand you) and would do your will without hesitation. All fights are meant to be one on one which would be defied if the skeletal warriors take part. I see your point, though.

      With or without the skeletal warriors Nico takes this quite comfortably.

      That's the point Oceanhalo was making... that the skeletal warriors do not count as outside parties because they are bound to Nico's service. They aren't pets, they're undead things commanded by Nico's will. They're incapable of defying him, unlike a pet. 

      I disagree with Oceanhalo's point. The skeletal warriors are sentient beings. Think of it like a soldier in the army. They must follow every command anyone who is above them in rank gives, otherwise there will be consequences. They ARE an outside party.

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    • They don't follow everyone above them in rank. For example, Percy could not control them, nor could Leo. Nico can control them because he's basically their master. And they're not sentient beings... they're undead skeletons. 

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    • To address your first point, I was not talking about undead warriors. I was talking about soldiers in an army, so completely read and understand what people say before you comment please. And they ARE an outside party, sentient or not.

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    • Perhaps your wording should be clarified- to me, at least, it seemed as though you were comparing skeletons to soldiers- which I am saying is not true. I disagree, I don't think they are outside parties, as it's Nico's demigod power to summon skeletons. 

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    • Warriorfan123 wrote: I disagree, I don't think they are outside parties, as it's Nico's demigod power to summon skeletons. 

      Hold up.

      Where did Nico summon undead warriors without the Diocletian scepter? Just asking if he did, just a question. Even if he did, The skeletal warriors are bound to him due to his father. It like if you are Royal and your father is the king the guards are bound to do your will because they serve your father. They are an outside party.

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    • Listen, these fights are ONE ON ONE. Summoning skeletons does not show any form of skill coming from Nico.

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Warriorfan123 wrote: I disagree, I don't think they are outside parties, as it's Nico's demigod power to summon skeletons. 

      Hold up.

      Where did Nico summon undead warriors without the Diocletian scepter? Just asking if he did, just a question. Even if he did, The skeletal warriors are bound to him due to his father. It like if you are Royal and your father is the king the guards are bound to do your will because they serve your father. They are an outside party.

      In the Titan's Curse, he caused a fissure in the ground and they came from it, if my memory serves me right. 

      So basically Nico can barely use any of the abilities he inherited from Hades.

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    • Warriorfan123 wrote: Perhaps your wording should be clarified- to me, at least, it seemed as though you were comparing skeletons to soldiers- which I am saying is not true. I disagree, I don't think they are outside parties, as it's Nico's demigod power to summon skeletons. 

      Um, yeah, but Hades has armies that mostly consists of Skeletons/ghosts.

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    • Warriorfan123 wrote:

      Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Warriorfan123 wrote: I disagree, I don't think they are outside parties, as it's Nico's demigod power to summon skeletons. 

      Hold up.

      Where did Nico summon undead warriors without the Diocletian scepter? Just asking if he did, just a question. Even if he did, The skeletal warriors are bound to him due to his father. It like if you are Royal and your father is the king the guards are bound to do your will because they serve your father. They are an outside party.

      In the Titan's Curse, he caused a fissure in the ground and they came from it, if my memory serves me right. 

      So basically Nico can barely use any of the abilities he inherited from Hades.

      ^ I'm sorry that instance isn't quite valid as those were sparti that followed Percy there, not summoned by Nico.

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    • i read the titan's curse a while ago, so my apologies for that... but i know nico created a crack in the ground, though i don't remember exactly what came out of it.

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    • DaughterOfHectate wrote:
      Leo is a good fighter and a strong demigod, but Nico turned a living Roman boy into a ghost without even needing to touch him, or say a word. I can't think of any human demigod that could fight that sort of power, if Nico was angry enough to use it. Plus, Nico only started fading after that because of the long shadow-travel trips *with passengers* he had been making on top of it. Ordinarily, summoning skeleton armies don't seem to tire Nico much, so I doubt making a ghost would. So, Nico is my winner here. ^.^

      Okay then still ghostifying people it took courage from Reyna not strength courage her courage, not her strength  and he had to be incredibly mad so the strength so yeah it still tires Nico

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    • To be honest I think Nico beats Leo, but I like Leo more than Nico.

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    • I'm starting to lean more to a tie.

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    • Ea225225 wrote: To be honest I think Nico beats Leo, but I like Leo more than Nico.

      That's my stance too.

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Ea225225 wrote: To be honest I think Nico beats Leo, but I like Leo more than Nico.

      That's my stance too.

      Me threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

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    • Yea, I think Nico wins now.

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    • ^ Inevitably.

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Warriorfan123 wrote:

      Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Warriorfan123 wrote: I disagree, I don't think they are outside parties, as it's Nico's demigod power to summon skeletons. 

      Hold up.

      Where did Nico summon undead warriors without the Diocletian scepter? Just asking if he did, just a question. Even if he did, The skeletal warriors are bound to him due to his father. It like if you are Royal and your father is the king the guards are bound to do your will because they serve your father. They are an outside party.

      In the Titan's Curse, he caused a fissure in the ground and they came from it, if my memory serves me right. 

      So basically Nico can barely use any of the abilities he inherited from Hades.

      ^ I'm sorry that instance isn't quite valid as those were sparti that followed Percy there, not summoned by Nico.

      UMM Nico has summoned skeletons so many times its scary you dont remember. Most of the battles he is in he summons them. His freakin demigod power is the power to control the dead. Thats like saying Leo cant use tools because they're not physically apart of them. I mean Nico's been in  arena fights before and HAS ALWAYS SUMMONED SKELETONS, so I really don't understand the controversy. Once again, Hazel's gems are not sentient nor alive, and only do what they are told to do, and are bound to her will. She's allowed to use them in fights. Percy's water is not sentient  nor alive, does only what it is told to do, and is bou8nd to his will. Percy's allowed to use them.

      They are just an extension of Nico, just like Percy's water or Hazel's gems. They are only as strong as he is, it just doesn't seem that way because bones are naturally durable, and the fact that they cant die, just break apart. But if you had a sword strong enough to shatter bones, hurting them would be as easy as hurting a normal, fleshy, human. The only undead beings that are sentient are ghost and sorta zombies, as ghost know exactly what they are doing, are sentient as any other human, still have their souls(quite literally they are entirely souls) and have actual minds and thought process, they're just scared of him because he's Hade's son( and because he knows how to 'tame' them), not that they are specifically bound to him. On the other hand, Nico's skeletons are literally just regular skeletons that are capable of moving. When he falls in battle they collapse, when he's tired , their fighting is sluggish. 

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Warriorfan123 wrote:


      Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      Warriorfan123 wrote: I disagree, I don't think they are outside parties, as it's Nico's demigod power to summon skeletons. 

      Hold up.

      Where did Nico summon undead warriors without the Diocletian scepter? Just asking if he did, just a question. Even if he did, The skeletal warriors are bound to him due to his father. It like if you are Royal and your father is the king the guards are bound to do your will because they serve your father. They are an outside party.

      In the Titan's Curse, he caused a fissure in the ground and they came from it, if my memory serves me right. 

      So basically Nico can barely use any of the abilities he inherited from Hades.

      ^ I'm sorry that instance isn't quite valid as those were sparti that followed Percy there, not summoned by Nico.
      UMM Nico has summoned skeletons so many times its scary you dont remember. Most of the battles he is in he summons them. His freakin demigod power is the power to control the dead. Thats like saying Leo cant use tools because they're not physically apart of them. I mean Nico's been in  arena fights before and HAS ALWAYS SUMMONED SKELETONS, so I really don't understand the controversy. Once again, Hazel's gems are not sentient nor alive, and only do what they are told to do, and are bound to her will. She's allowed to use them in fights. Percy's water is not sentient  nor alive, does only what it is told to do, and is bou8nd to his will. Percy's allowed to use them.

      They are just an extension of Nico, just like Percy's water or Hazel's gems. They are only as strong as he is, it just doesn't seem that way because bones are naturally durable, and the fact that they cant die, just break apart. But if you had a sword strong enough to shatter bones, hurting them would be as easy as hurting a normal, fleshy, human. The only undead beings that are sentient are ghost and sorta zombies, as ghost know exactly what they are doing, are sentient as any other human, still have their souls(quite literally they are entirely souls) and have actual minds and thought process, they're just scared of him because he's Hade's son( and because he knows how to 'tame' them), not that they are specifically bound to him. On the other hand, Nico's skeletons are literally just regular skeletons that are capable of moving. When he falls in battle they collapse, when he's tired , their fighting is sluggish. 

      Dang, you guys are always prepared

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    • They are an outside party and are nothing like gems or water. They are alive, yes? They move not under someone's control, but prone to orders yes? And they tilt the fight unfairly in the favor of someone yes?

      Sounds like an outside party to me.

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    • Nico does NOT get skeletons in any of these fights. And if you think that he "summoned skeletons so many times its scary" then bring out some quotes.

      As long as Nico can combat Leo's fire, then Nico wins, yet I'm not certain he will unless he can make some rock walls to close the distance.

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    • ^ Exactly I don't remember Nico summoning any skeletons without the Diocletian scepter and would very much appreciate someone to rejog my memory.

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      They are an outside party and are nothing like gems or water. They are alive, yes? They move not under someone's control, but prone to orders yes? And they tilt the fight unfairly in the favor of someone yes?

      Sounds like an outside party to me.

      A.) They are not alive

      B. They do move under his control

      C.) Why are we just discussing this in Nico's like 4th fight. No one had any problems with it before and you can't change it now as that would make all prior fights invalid.

      I don't have a copy of the Last Olympian oh hand(literally just gave it to my friend yesterday) but once I get I'll put out the quote.

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    • You could look for a pdf

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    • SayuriDarling wrote: excuse u we have established that leo is not hot and every single female minus his gf hate him

      Why would Hazel, Piper, Rachel,Annabeth, and Echo hate him? By the way those Maeneads and those nymphs from MOA, DID say he was cute.

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    • For the Nico summoning thing, here is something fromThe Battle of the Labyrinth:


      “Nico!” I yelled. He looked where I was pointing, saw the serpent women, and immediately understood. He took a deep breath and held out his black sword. “Serve me,” he called. The earth trembled. A fissure opened in front of the dracaenae, and a dozen undead warriors crawled from the earth—horrible corpses in military uniforms from all different time periods.

      The page is 212 but i´m not sure because its PDF

      And, summoning Jules Albert counts?

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    • nico ftw!

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    • Nico ftw, battle wise and Leo ftw, character wise.But that's just my opinion :)

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    • nico will definitely beat leo pretty comprehensively

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    • Nico FTW! xD

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote:
      Nico FTW! xD

      Inevitably. I have to say, Leo's best defense is setting himself on fire so Nico can't come near him, and that would wear him down.

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    • Or dying. Maybe even that wont work against Nico

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    • NICO FTW!!!!!! I like HADES and NICO VERY VERY VERY VERY MUCH!!!! Nico is a cool mysterious guy with cool powers!!!

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    • WrathOfTheUltimateHADES wrote:
      NICO FTW!!!!!! I like HADES and NICO VERY VERY VERY VERY MUCH!!!! Nico is a cool mysterious guy with cool powers!!!

      Wow Bold and CAPS LOCK?

      Calm down, its not that serious, I'm pretty sure we all guessed your opinion from your username.

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    • ^ Deeeaaaad. 

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    • Yes it is a little bit too much probaly :/

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    •  

      For the shadow travel thing Nico used it in a short distance in Trials of Apollo but it was exhausting to him still. As for shadow travelling long distances, that would be a poor move in a fight against Leo as it would give Leo time to (literally) build up a defense against Nico.

      Nico can still hide in the shadows though.


      For the debate on skeleton involvement my take is that Nico will always be able to call on the skeletons in a fight if they are on solid ground but Leo would need Festus to be near to get the dragon's help. Therefore the skeletons should be considered as one of Nico's powers if they are not fighting in a specialized arena meant to disadvantage Nico.

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    • Nico fainted in THO most likely because he shadow traveled in the day, to a carriage in motion with other person. I think that a short shadow travel to surprise Leo wouldn't take a lot of his energy.

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    • I thought it was likely that he was still recovering from BOO, but you do make a good point.

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      ^ Exactly, like if Nico is allowed to call on the undead to fight for him, then Leo might as well have Festus, and Percy can have Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack. They are all outside parties and would tilt the fight in the favor of someone, so no hellhounds or sparti for Nico. End of Story.

      Correct me if I'm wrong but Festus, Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack all have some degree of sentience. The reanimated skeletons don't. They can't make autonomous descisions and are essentially just tools like those Leo can withdraw from his belt

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    • Fair point. Nico does have complete control of them.

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    • Starsandsupernovae wrote:

      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      ^ Exactly, like if Nico is allowed to call on the undead to fight for him, then Leo might as well have Festus, and Percy can have Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack. They are all outside parties and would tilt the fight in the favor of someone, so no hellhounds or sparti for Nico. End of Story.

      Correct me if I'm wrong but Festus, Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack all have some degree of sentience. The reanimated skeletons don't. They can't make autonomous descisions and are essentially just tools like those Leo can withdraw from his belt

      Good point

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    • Utkar22 wrote:

      Starsandsupernovae wrote:


      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      ^ Exactly, like if Nico is allowed to call on the undead to fight for him, then Leo might as well have Festus, and Percy can have Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack. They are all outside parties and would tilt the fight in the favor of someone, so no hellhounds or sparti for Nico. End of Story.
      Correct me if I'm wrong but Festus, Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack all have some degree of sentience. The reanimated skeletons don't. They can't make autonomous descisions and are essentially just tools like those Leo can withdraw from his belt
      Good point

      the only real strong powers of nico are he can summon the undead O_O

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    • Finally we're all in agreement that Nico's skeletons are NOT sentient, and therefore allowed in Arena fights.

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    • WrathOfTheUltimateHADES wrote:
      Utkar22 wrote:

      Starsandsupernovae wrote:


      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      ^ Exactly, like if Nico is allowed to call on the undead to fight for him, then Leo might as well have Festus, and Percy can have Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack. They are all outside parties and would tilt the fight in the favor of someone, so no hellhounds or sparti for Nico. End of Story.
      Correct me if I'm wrong but Festus, Mrs. O'Leary and Blackjack all have some degree of sentience. The reanimated skeletons don't. They can't make autonomous descisions and are essentially just tools like those Leo can withdraw from his belt
      Good point
      the only real strong powers of nico are he can summon the undead O_O

      I'm not sure what that's meant to connote? that nico's powers are inferior? summoning the undead is pretty much the greatest combat power here. By "only" summoning them he can sit behind controlling them while they take anything Leo throws at them. They can reach through fire.

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    • Warriorfan123 wrote:
      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      Unfortunately, no skeletal warriors for Nico. 😈😈😈

      And I quote:


      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: ^^^This is a fight btw Leo and Nico, without the involvement of outside parties

      Yes, but since it's a fight between them, they should be able to use their abilities? So Nico can summon hellhounds and his undead army, and Leo can build/do whatever his powers allow him to do. 

      My vote's for Nico, seeing as he is a child of the Big Three. 

      How has being a child of the Big Three ever helped?!

      Frank can beat Jason -.-

      Tho still, my vote is for Nico (Obvio) Cuz he has many more powers than Leo

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    • Guys we have already discussed this, Nico is allowed to use his skeletons! They are NOT and outside party because they are just an extention of him. Its like saying Jason cant use lightning bolts, because 'technically' their not his, he just directs them. Leo didn't BUILD his tools, he builds things WITH them. Nico didn't Invent skeletons, but they are only as strong as he is so they are essentially his tools. 

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote: Guys we have already discussed this, Nico is allowed to use his skeletons! They are NOT and outside party because they are just an extention of him. Its like saying Jason cant use lightning bolts, because 'technically' their not his, he just directs them. Leo didn't BUILD his tools, he builds things WITH them. Nico didn't Invent skeletons, but they are only as strong as he is so they are essentially his tools. 

      OK, but Leo still should not be allowed to use Festus or other automatons, cause they ARE an outside party.

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    • Annabeth and Percy
      Annabeth and Percy removed this reply because:
      Wish it on her talk page instead, please.
      21:19, February 19, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Unless he builds an automaton right there with his toolbelt then he can't

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote:

      Oceanhalo12 wrote: Guys we have already discussed this, Nico is allowed to use his skeletons! They are NOT and outside party because they are just an extention of him. Its like saying Jason cant use lightning bolts, because 'technically' their not his, he just directs them. Leo didn't BUILD his tools, he builds things WITH them. Nico didn't Invent skeletons, but they are only as strong as he is so they are essentially his tools. 

      OK, but Leo still should not be allowed to use Festus or other automatons, cause they ARE an outside party.

      Well obviously! The problem was people saying no skeletons for Nico.

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    • and we solved that by pointing out that the skeletons are entirely dependent on Nico's instruction and don't qualify as autonomous beings

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    • ^true intelligence

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    • Coolguypro777
      Coolguypro777 removed this reply because:
      I will give a better explanation
      08:28, February 26, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Nico, summon a ton of skeletons and then attack while Leo is outnumbered. If he can't use skeletons, he can just fight him physically or make a fissure in the ground

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      Ok. So, I can understand people liking Leo better ( though I like Nico more), but people actually think Leo could beat Nico? It's literally almost IMPOSSIBLE.


      Disadvantages of:Leo: he has Fire powers which, would effect Nico. WOULD, mind you. Because Leo would be to busy fighting of Nico's Skeletons or having to get through his bone armor. And Since Leo isn't shown to do swordplay, he would be relying on his powers to do either task I mentioned. His Fire Powers to be exact. And bone melts at  1381 deg. Celsius or 2517.8 deg. Fahrenheit. That's hotter than When lava first breaks through the surface of the Earth, it is an extremely hot liquid. On average, fresh lava can be between 1,300° F and 2,200° F! Depending on its exact temperature, fresh lava usually glows either orange/red (cooler) or white (hotter). Source:http://wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-hot-is-lava/ So yeah, melting Nico's skeletons will be really difficult. Also, aren't they super humanly strong and wasn't that bone cage he made hard for an immortal to break? So it might take even more heat. So Leo's biggest weakness is his reliance on powers( Although I'm to lazy to bring up his technokinesis) and his lack of physical power as well as How easy it is for Nico to simply overwhelm him.

      Disadvantages of Nico: Now, Nico is a different story. His biggest weakness is his emotions. His being gay. STOP FOR A SECOND. Being Gay is not a weakness in its self, but people can use it to hurt you or your feelings, that is . Do Not start a Gay War on this thread. Just don't . Now, though this a weakness, Leo is not an opponent to exploit this correctly. He is a generally nice person and although he is clever, he is not clever In the evil, conniving way(Ex. Octavian). So Leo can't defeat him using the verbal, clever tactic. Although, I wonder if Leo could throw tools strong enough to break bones.(Or (in essence) Nico's skeletal warriors)  Time for More research!

      Source:http://www.georgiamountainkravmaga.com/amounts-of-force-needed-to           COMMONLY ACCEPTED AMOUNTS OF FORCE(?) TO CAUSE DAMAGE TO A HUMAN  3. Throat – Crushing the human throat takes roughly that same amount of pressure as crushing an empty soda can. 4. Collar bone – Approximately 8 lbs of force to snap this bone. 5. Elbow joint – Breaking the elbow joint take between 5-8 lbs of force. 6. Knee joint – Putting direct force against the joint in the knee can be devastating, Breaking this joint takes approximately 15 lbs of pressure                                                                                                                                                I stop at 15 pounds because Leo is pretty scrawny so even though he could probably lift more he could THROW much more, or not accurately, at least.                                                         Gods now I keep imagining Leo whipping out a screwdriver and throwing it quoit-style(HoH reference!)

      BACK ON TOPIC1!11!1

      All in all I think I'm gonna have to go with Nico ftw, I tried to be as non- biased as possible, even though All da ladies luv Leo( HoH reference).

      Time to actually GO vote.

      I love this post.And yes,Nico wins character wise and battle wise.

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    • ^Awww thanx!

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    • No need to thank bro.You are a great debater.

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    • Ok I am a huge fan of Leo Valdez, but I love Nico Di Angelo more. I know. You find me crazy. But he has amazing powers and an interesting personality and history. Leo, yes he is awesome too and insanely funny but, you know. I don't really know. They are both frickin awesome!

      If they both fought? Nico would win.

      But Leo is so awesome and amazing though!

      But so is Nico...

      UGH! So hard to decide.

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    • They are both cool,but I prefer Nico.

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    • Nico wins.Technokinesis is literally ruled out as Nico won't give Leo chance to prepare.If Leo hurls flames at Nico,then Nico can summon earth walls to block out the flames.Leo can't rule out Nico's ostekinesis easily as it takes a lot of heat to melt bones.If Nico summons skeletons,then Leo is literally dead.Nico wins in swords as Leo sucks in swords and Nico has decent sword skills.Leo's feats are impressive but did you notice that he only got those feats because he got prep or he had an elemental advantage.Nico on the other hand has impressive feats which he got when he is on his own and when he didn't have a noticeable advantage.NICO FLW!

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    • NICO FTW!!!!!!

      he make a ghost of leo!

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    • Coolguypro777 wrote:
      Nico wins.Technokinesis is literally ruled out as Nico won't give Leo chance to prepare.If Leo hurls flames at Nico,then Nico can summon earth walls to block out the flames.Leo can't rule out Nico's bonekinesis easily as it takes a lot of heat to melt bones.If Nico summons skeletons,then Leo is literally dead.Nico wins in swords as Leo sucks in swords and Nico has decent sword skills.Leo's feats are impressive but did you notice that he only got those feats because he got prep or he had an elemental advantage.Nico on the other hand has impressive feats which he got when he is on his own and when he didn't have a noticeable advantage.NICO FLW!

      bonekinesis? smpphhm

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Coolguypro777 wrote:
      Nico wins.Technokinesis is literally ruled out as Nico won't give Leo chance to prepare.If Leo hurls flames at Nico,then Nico can summon earth walls to block out the flames.Leo can't rule out Nico's bonekinesis easily as it takes a lot of heat to melt bones.If Nico summons skeletons,then Leo is literally dead.Nico wins in swords as Leo sucks in swords and Nico has decent sword skills.Leo's feats are impressive but did you notice that he only got those feats because he got prep or he had an elemental advantage.Nico on the other hand has impressive feats which he got when he is on his own and when he didn't have a noticeable advantage.NICO FLW!
      bonekinesis? smpphhm

      Don't know how to spell it.I 'll edit it.

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    • Annabeth and Percy
      Annabeth and Percy removed this reply because:
      .
      11:34, March 14, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • ^no its was just funny there's no need to edit it.

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    • ^^OK.

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    • NicoDiAngeloLove wrote:
      Ok I am a huge fan of Leo Valdez, but I love Nico Di Angelo more. I know. You find me crazy. But he has amazing powers and an interesting personality and history. Leo, yes he is awesome too and insanely funny but, you know. I don't really know. They are both frickin awesome!

      If they both fought? Nico would win.

      But Leo is so awesome and amazing though!

      But so is Nico...

      UGH! So hard to decide.

      You bet Leo is awesome!!

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    • I love Leo but Nico will win.

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    • Nico will obviously win.Technokinesis is ruled out because there is no prep time.That leaves Leo with pyrokinesis.Nico can just summon zombies and Leo can't destroy them because he isn't a child of Hades.Nico can also solidify shadows as protection and summon rock walls to shield him from Leo's attacks.He can also use his osteokinesis to trap Leo like he did with Lycaon's wolves.He can also induce fear into Leo and give him a big migraine and release all of his bad memories on Leo.He could ghostify Leo too although it would drain him dramatically.

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    • Storm7777 wrote:
      Nico will obviously win.Technokinesis is ruled out because there is no prep time.That leaves Leo with pyrokinesis.Nico can just summon zombies and Leo can't destroy them because he isn't a child of Hades.Nico can also solidify shadows as protection and summon rock walls to shield him from Leo's attacks.He can also use his osteokinesis to trap Leo like he did with Lycaon's wolves.He can also induce fear into Leo and give him a big migraine and release all of his bad memories on Leo.He could ghostify Leo too although it would drain him dramatically.

      Exacty. How the Hades can Leo win against Nico.

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    • I agree with Sebastien. I understand people liking Leo better but I don't get how Leo can win against Nico. Nico's only weakness is Homophobia but unless Leo is someone like Octavian, who can exploit Nico's disadvantage and use it against him, Leo will not get that advantage. And mind you, Leo is not like Octavian.

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    • I love Leo but if Nico can summon skeletons, I think Nico would win in a battle. Also Nico can shadow travel to a random place. So obviously Nico would win!

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    • ^^Giving yourself kudos? Seriously. Not to be offensive but seriously?

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    • ^lmao

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    • Jack william leong wrote:
      I agree with Sebastien. I understand people liking Leo better but I don't get how Leo can win against Nico. Nico's only weakness is Homophobia but unless Leo is someone like Octavian, who can exploit Nico's disadvantage and use it against him, Leo will not get that advantage. And mind you, Leo is not like Octavian.

      Yes agree with this. I mean Leo is an okay character but I see no way that Leo can win against Nico.

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    • Leo is not a fighter. He is more like an engineer or a tinkerer. Leo wouldn't win in a knockout fight against Nico di Angelo. Leo would need more battle training before trying that.

      Leo could cleverly use the props in the arena to his advantage. Leo also has lots of tricks up his Tool Belt. But still, I feel, Nico would prevail in the end.

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    • Leo has tricks up his sleeve yes but he still can't beat Nico.

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    • Nico sounds badass. No other questions allowed.

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    • ^^^Nico is badass.

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    • ^True.

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    • Leo will summon Festus and other metal creatures he has made. Nico can shadow travel. Leo has a bronze hammer and fire powers while Nico has Stygian iron sword. Hard but Leo

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    • RackelDaOne wrote: Leo will summon Festus and other metal creatures he has made. Nico can shadow travel. Leo has a bronze hammer and fire powers while Nico has Stygian iron sword. Hard but Leo

      No outside interefence...Leo is not allowed to summon Festus neither is Nico allowed to summon hellhounds.

      Skeletons are fair game because it part of his own powers...just as we don't prevent Percy from using water, or Jason lightning or Hazel mist powers/metalokinesis.

      They're all inherent powers.

      Nico can overwhelm Leo's fire with bones and/ skeleton army. Leo is not going to burn through those bones quickly.

      Nico has power over the earth too...he can throw black sharp rocks (really sharp). He can solidy shadow and use them as shields or send bolts of darkness to blind Leo to his surrounding. (can't see your enemy, can't tag them)

      Also he has freezing abilities...he generates intense cold to the point the ground around him became frosted.

      Nico can put demigods to sleep with that dream-kinesis thing he has (he can induce fear too...even Jason was afraid of him, Leo wont stand a chance).

      Nico is a really good long distance fighter...he has many abilities to overcome Leo's fire from a distance.

      Leo and his hammer won't be getting close...if it came hand to hand, Nico would swipe the floor.

      A good combination of darkness bolts and skeleton army should have Leo down in seconds.

      If Nico was feeling nice, just put him to sleep with a nice deep dream.

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    • Carefully written. I like it.

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: Nico di Angelo! His experience and power, as well as his infernally fearsome aura would make him more than Leo can handle!

      Leo can just stand at a safe distance and shoot his fire, though.
      Ummm...There is now safe distance from Skeletal warriors who can only be defeated by a child of Hades(Like the Once when Percy told Nico about Bianca). And as I said waaaaaay back, Nico has the advantage against fire because: 


      Disadvantages of:Leo: he has Fire powers which, would effect Nico. WOULD, mind you. Because Leo would be to busy fighting of Nico's Skeletons or having to get through his bone armor. And Since Leo isn't shown to do swordplay, he would be relying on his powers to do either task I mentioned. His Fire Powers to be exact. And bone melts at  1381 deg. Celsius or 2517.8 deg. Fahrenheit. That's hotter than When lava first breaks through the surface of the Earth, it is an extremely hot liquid. On average, fresh lava can be between 1,300° F and 2,200° F! Depending on its exact temperature, fresh lava usually glows either orange/red (cooler) or white (hotter). Source:http://wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-hot-is-lava/ So yeah, melting Nico's skeletons will be really difficult. Also, aren't they super humanly strong and wasn't that bone cage he made hard for an immortal to break? So it might take even more heat. So Leo's biggest weakness is his reliance on powers( Although I'm to lazy to bring up his technokinesis) and his lack of physical power as well as How easy it is for Nico to simply overwhelm him.

      Leo probably couldn't throw tools strong enough to break bones.(Or (in essence) Nico's skeletal warriors)

      Source:http://www.georgiamountainkravmaga.com/amounts-of-force-needed-to           COMMONLY ACCEPTED AMOUNTS OF FORCE(?) TO CAUSE DAMAGE TO A HUMAN  3. Throat – Crushing the human throat takes roughly that same amount of pressure as crushing an empty soda can. 4. Collar bone – Approximately 8 lbs of force to snap this bone. 5. Elbow joint – Breaking the elbow joint take between 5-8 lbs of force. 6. Knee joint – Putting direct force against the joint in the knee can be devastating, Breaking this joint takes approximately 15 lbs of pressure                                                                                                                                                 I stop at 15 pounds because Leo is pretty scrawny so even though he could probably lift more he could not THROW much more, or not accurately, at least. Gods now I keep imagining Leo whipping out a screwdriver and throwing it quoit-style(HoH reference!)

      Just copying my own post lower into the thread so people can see what arguments have already been made.

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    • Leo would easily win this.

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    • Nico di Angelo for sure. Nico is the son of Hades, so he's totally powerful. Hades is even older than Zeus, which means he's much as powerful. Leo is funny and all, but I don't think he's much of a match to Death Boy. Did anyone remember, Leo admitted that he's a bit scared of the son of Hades? So my answer is:

      Nico di Angelo!!!!!!!!!!

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    • Nico ftw

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    • Leo, because all da ladiez luv Leo. I'm just kidding, anyways, Nico would be the prized winner here because he has a wide array of powers that are easily more versatile than Leo's powers. In general demigod terms, Nico would also be victorious as he is a child of the Big Three, much more powerful than your average demigod. He could summon an army of skeletons, which by then he would br unconcious from his stamina-decreasing abilities, as the skeletons could only be killed by children of Hades.

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    • SayuriDarling wrote: every single female minus his gf hate him

      That's not true. Piper doesn't hate him, Hazel doesn't hate him, Nyssa doesn't hate him, the only person that hates him is Reyna because he was possessed and fired on the camp which wasn't his fault.

      I'm not sure who would win. Nico can summon zombies but Nico can make really good machines. If a random battle started Nico would win because it takes time to make machines. Also only children of Hades can kill skeletons. If there was time to prepare probably Leo because he could make a really good machine and kill Nico. Also Leo could make make an invisible shield that skeletons couldn't get through to protect him like in MoA in Archimedes workshop.

      Commander Tool Belt wrote: ^ Exactly I don't remember Nico summoning any skeletons without the Diocletian scepter and would very much appreciate someone to rejog my memory.

      He did it in TlO when Kronos invaded Manhattan.

      LeilaMagic wrote: Leo would easily win this.

      You have to explain your answer.

      Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Commander Tool Belt wrote:

      8th Hero of Olympus wrote: Nico di Angelo! His experience and power, as well as his infernally fearsome aura would make him more than Leo can handle!

      Leo can just stand at a safe distance and shoot his fire, though.
      Ummm...There is now safe distance from Skeletal warriors who can only be defeated by a child of Hades(Like the Once when Percy told Nico about Bianca). And as I said waaaaaay back, Nico has the advantage against fire because: 


      Disadvantages of:Leo: he has Fire powers which, would effect Nico. WOULD, mind you. Because Leo would be to busy fighting of Nico's Skeletons or having to get through his bone armor. And Since Leo isn't shown to do swordplay, he would be relying on his powers to do either task I mentioned. His Fire Powers to be exact. And bone melts at  1381 deg. Celsius or 2517.8 deg. Fahrenheit. That's hotter than When lava first breaks through the surface of the Earth, it is an extremely hot liquid. On average, fresh lava can be between 1,300° F and 2,200° F! Depending on its exact temperature, fresh lava usually glows either orange/red (cooler) or white (hotter). Source:http://wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-hot-is-lava/ So yeah, melting Nico's skeletons will be really difficult. Also, aren't they super humanly strong and wasn't that bone cage he made hard for an immortal to break? So it might take even more heat. So Leo's biggest weakness is his reliance on powers( Although I'm to lazy to bring up his technokinesis) and his lack of physical power as well as How easy it is for Nico to simply overwhelm him.

      Leo probably couldn't throw tools strong enough to break bones.(Or (in essence) Nico's skeletal warriors)

      Source:http://www.georgiamountainkravmaga.com/amounts-of-force-needed-to           COMMONLY ACCEPTED AMOUNTS OF FORCE(?) TO CAUSE DAMAGE TO A HUMAN  3. Throat – Crushing the human throat takes roughly that same amount of pressure as crushing an empty soda can. 4. Collar bone – Approximately 8 lbs of force to snap this bone. 5. Elbow joint – Breaking the elbow joint take between 5-8 lbs of force. 6. Knee joint – Putting direct force against the joint in the knee can be devastating, Breaking this joint takes approximately 15 lbs of pressure                                                                                                                                                 I stop at 15 pounds because Leo is pretty scrawny so even though he could probably lift more he could not THROW much more, or not accurately, at least. Gods now I keep imagining Leo whipping out a screwdriver and throwing it quoit-style(HoH reference!)

      That would happen if there wasn't preparing, but if there was preparing Leo might win.

      General Tyson wrote:

      RackelDaOne wrote: Leo will summon Festus and other metal creatures he has made. Nico can shadow travel. Leo has a bronze hammer and fire powers while Nico has Stygian iron sword. Hard but Leo

      No outside interefence...Leo is not allowed to summon Festus neither is Nico allowed to summon hellhounds.

      Skeletons are fair game because it part of his own powers...just as we don't prevent Percy from using water, or Jason lightning or Hazel mist powers/metalokinesis.

      They're all inherent powers.

      Nico can overwhelm Leo's fire with bones and/ skeleton army. Leo is not going to burn through those bones quickly.

      Nico has power over the earth too...he can throw black sharp rocks (really sharp). He can solidy shadow and use them as shields or send bolts of darkness to blind Leo to his surrounding. (can't see your enemy, can't tag them)

      Also he has freezing abilities...he generates intense cold to the point the ground around him became frosted.

      Nico can put demigods to sleep with that dream-kinesis thing he has (he can induce fear too...even Jason was afraid of him, Leo wont stand a chance).

      Nico is a really good long distance fighter...he has many abilities to overcome Leo's fire from a distance.

      Leo and his hammer won't be getting close...if it came hand to hand, Nico would swipe the floor.

      A good combination of darkness bolts and skeleton army should have Leo down in seconds.

      If Nico was feeling nice, just put him to sleep with a nice deep dream.

      Good point, but if Leo had one of those shields like in Archimedes workshop the skeletons couldn't get in. Also Leo could set the thing on fire so Nico couldn't shadow travel in without being burned.

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    • Wait, what shields?

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    • The one that the eidolons couldn't get through when Leo uses Archimedes spheres to kill them in MoA

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    • Leo could stand behind it and have an excellent cannon or something.

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    • I'm pretty sure only their abilities,powers, and ther signature weapons are allowed, so Leo would have to make the shields :/

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    • Im full in for nico he will just rape the soul of leo out of him and then blow him into the tartarus or something like that. he is a child of the big three so he got way better powers. 

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    • I'm pretty sure you mean "reap", not rape. I don't fully back up Nico's Ghostification, but he has other ways for him to totally wipe the floor with Leo.

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    • @novaBoom you are right :P

      got some problems with english use wrong words in wrong sentences :/

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    • Couldn't Leo use his fire to take away any shadows around him, then lob fireballs or something

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    • Yes. Also he could throw mallets for his tool belt.

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    • Please, do tell, how mallets and fireballs be effective against Nico's spartoi?

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    • They probably wouldn't, but like I said earlier Leo could have some of those shields so the skeletons couldn't get in. Then he could take away shadows with his fire and kill Nico.

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    • WrathOfTheUltimateHADES wrote:
      Im full in for nico he will just rape the soul of leo out of him and then blow him into the tartarus or something like that. he is a child of the big three so he got way better powers. 

      like I said b4 Nico just REAPS the soul out of leo in the first few seconds of the fight leo has ZERO chance to win TOTALLY ZERO 

      except if you can tell me how a guy that plays with fire and has hammers and other engineer stuff cant with stand it to get blown to tartarus by a son of HADES member of the Big Three (who get the most powerfull demi-god children they even needed to swear an oath for that) so it is in my eyes very clear that Nico will win. Or any ideas how he can with stand that soul reap thingy?

      kind regards from HADES!

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    • What soul reap thingy?

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    • ehm last book of the heroes of olympus (blood of olympus) he sends a demi-god (don't remember the name) to hades while reyna watched him and feeled all his hate and pain. will edit this message when im home then i will look at the name :)

      Edit: (thanks to Annabeth and Percy) it was Bryce Lawrence (child of the roman god Orcus ):P

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    • It was Bryce Lawrence.

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    • He didn't know how he did it though.

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    • but he was able to do it that is the point if he did it once he will be able to use it another time. And then i didnt talk about spartoi and shadow stuff and bone traps.... 

      so Nico wins 100% sure

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    • Maybe Hades used his powers to help Nico. Also Nico let out his anger to do it. He is happy now, so how could he do it again?

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    • If Hades had helped it would have been mentioned. Also someone trying to kill you doesn't exactly make you jump for joy. In a death match we can assume Nico and Leo are angry.

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    • Ryan18759 wrote:
      Maybe Hades used his powers to help Nico. Also Nico let out his anger to do it. He is happy now, so how could he do it again?

      no i didnt help nico (I agree with Agana)  and who said that he isn't angry in this battle? Never heard sayu mention that the fighters are happy when they fight. And what Agana said: Why will they fight if they are happy?

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    • True, but Nico let out his anger because Reyna was in trouble. That isn't the case in this fight.

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    • NICO!!!

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    • Explain why

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    • Yeah Nico would probably win.

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    • It depends if there was preparing or not.

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    • 8th Hero of Olympus wrote:
      Nico by far!!! xD

      I both love Nico a lot more as a character (Leo can can be a bit too obnoxious at times!-_-), and I feel that Nico would win in a duel between the two, primarily because he is the more experienced combatant of the two, as well as the demigod child of a more powerful deity.


      SayuriDarling wrote: Excuse u we have established that leo is not hot and every single female minus his gf hate him

      Well, that's not entirely true, as Leo has a very good relationship with both Piper and Hazel. Otherwise though yeah, the implications are that Leo isn't particularly hot.

      Leo is hot .........................................................................................................................................

      Fire Hot ;P

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    • Your way off topic.

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    • Leo! He's funny, which is awesome, sense I read Percy Jackson mostly for the humor. (Not that I don't read it for the plots).

      Leo also can make really interesting machines, and he is good friends with almost everyone on the Argo II. Well, Frank excluded, because he doesn't trust the sizzling hot guy when his lifeline is literally controlled by a piece of wood.

      Not that I don't like Nico - He's amazing, too!

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    • Nico FTW in a fight unless there is prep time.

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    • Yeah probably.

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    • Nico can summon an army of skeletons that are nearly immune to fire easily outnumbering and overpowering leo.

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    • Did anyone say this was a fight?

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    • Yes it is a fight read it.

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    • There's a separate discussion for the who-would-win-the-fight..

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    • SayuriDarling
      SayuriDarling removed this reply because:
      no.
      03:21, March 3, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • This is definitely a versus fight...

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    • Patrickqiu123 wrote: Nico FTW in a fight unless there is prep time.

      Is there prep time?

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    • in a fight, Nico. i mean seriously lmao.

      as a character, Leo. :D

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    • Leo can build an Archimedes death ray.

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    • ^ Dude, the death ray isn't even a death ray, it's just a big flash of light. It wouldn't do anything to nico

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    • I mean like an actual death ray, not what he called one.

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    • Seriously, Nico can summon zonbies and stuff. I know Leo is cool, but I think Nico is awsome!

      He is the son of the Big Three, you know.

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    • Nico

      Leo cant kill Nico's skeletons or zombies because only children of Hades can kill them.  Nico is also Much better than Leo. 

      And nico can shadow travel which must make sneaking up on leo easier if they ever had a fight

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    • Honestly, I think Nico would win. I was just arguing for Leo because everyone said Nico would win.

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    • Whoa..What the hell? It's crazy! Is this thread actually still continuing since the 2016? That's nuts, guys, that's nuts. 

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    • I think we can all agree that Nico is victorious.

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    • Apparently not everyone agrees with that, tho. 

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    • Delariona wrote: Whoa..What the hell? It's crazy! Is this thread actually still continuing since the 2016? That's nuts, guys, that's nuts. 

      How has it been going on that long?

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    • Well, appearance-wise, Leo was already established to be unattractive. In a fight, Nico can take 50 Leos. As far as characters go.... Nico again. Leo was great in Heroes of Olympus, but Rick chickened out and didn't let him die, which ruined his character.

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    • I can say the both of their character arcs weren't handled well. Leo's going to Calypso with his cheating his friends and letting them thinking he is now dead, was the most cringy and worst thing that the character of Leo can get. As for Nico, his suddenly getting over his angst was as well as cheap, and just do not get me start on his 'confession.' In the end, Leo got worse, Nico wasn't got worse like in the Leo's situation but his arc wasn't handled well. 

      Anyways, Nico obviously wins in the fight. Is that even a question?

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    • I dunno why people overhype the issues with HE LET HIS FRIENDS THINK HE WAS DEAD JUST FOR CALYPSO WHO HE MET ONCE bruh Leo wasn't sure if the physician's cure would work the way he intended it to work it would have been beyondddd cruel if he was like dw I'm coming back and then it didn't work and everyone would just be like 

      As for his love for Calypso THAT I don't understand or care for much. 

      And yes, Nico's sudden crush on Percy and being gay wasn't introduced well. Was quite rushed, and with no background at all. Rick could have done a better job of developing that side of him before dropping the bomb that he was in fact gay. 

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    • Because Leo's telling to Hazel and Frank that they should keep this as secret, and then let Piper and Jason think that he is really dead, is crappy? I'm all for his going to go saving Calypso, but what he did was suck. That's not just about love, that's doing the right thing, but also doing the right thing without acting like jerk to your friends and let them think that you didn't ever able to find the cure. 

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    • Nico for da winnnnnn!!!

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    • I originally started thinking these thoughts for a Caleo vs Solangelo chat (that was archived and I needed someplace else to vent my thoughts), so this is a lot of me talking about him before Calypso. Keep that in mind. Okay cool. (Sorry I wrote a bunch I actually just don't have a life).


      Okay, so I love Nico... However, I am still going with Leo, and here’s why:

      Leo is just so sad and full of loss, and the book really seems to emphasize his want/need to connect with someone on a deeper level. This isn’t to say that Nico wasn’t also sad and troubled, because boy he sure was too. The difference is the way it changed them and how this change affected their life. Nico became all dark and everything, while Leo became kind of obnoxious/annoying because he deals with loss through humor. I have a lot of sympathy for Nico, and I can honestly say that his depression makes me want to hug him and cry. A lot of times, it seems like that's the same thing that a lot of the other book characters, his friends, want to do as well, because they know he is sad and it hurts them. They don’t sympathize as much with Leo though because he’s just that happy, annoying 7th wheel who (seemingly) doesn’t know anything about sadness and death. He puts on a mask for everyone (See the quote, “You look sad when you think no one is looking at you.”). They can also be harsh with him sometimes because of his i-don’t-take-anything-seriously personality (that, again, stems from his tremendous loss) and because they don't know about how broken he is inside that just hurts him even more. So Leo probably felt more alone than Nico, because it's not like he has anyone reaching out to help him (well maybe piper but like not really) and he feels rejected and like a 7th wheel all the time. And he’s not only rejected by his friends.I mean he spends his time flirting with girls that he knows are out of his league and that he'll never get with, just because he is so scared of getting rejected by someone he might actually have a chance with. 

      Yeah, he makes a whole lot of mistakes in the books, but c'mon. Team Leo. 

      Sorry I know that this was about physical fighting, but a lot of people were taking about the differences character-wise and I just figured i'd jump in. So yeah. Sorry.

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    • This discussion started in 2016 and is still continuing and is it even legit?

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    • It most definitely is legit!!

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    • Nico can send people to asophel at will. Do I need to say anything else?

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    • Delariona wrote:
      This discussion started in 2016 and is still continuing and is it even legit?

      We're kidding ourselves if we're trying to thaw this conversation.

      And also @Skyswack, really? Nico was happier towards the end of Blood Of Olympus because he found true happiness (that will last him a while I presume), so I doubt the dark and gloomy thing will last quite a long time even though that's how his (edgy) godly parent subconsciously taught it to them. I would not say that I agree Leo is stronger than Nico, but that claim alone is really unfair.

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    • LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEO

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    • Dimondback of the Sandwings wrote:
      Leo! Duh. He can tame a copper dragon, make a helecopter, and die, but get better! not to mention firey fists of doom. 

      First of all, he only survived because of the physician's cure. Secondly, I don't remember Leo going through Tartarus. Remember, for Leo, making stuff isn't a skill but a power. So yeah, Nico can raise the dead and actually care about people who aren't popular or that important (e.g. Bob, Hestia). So Nico would win in all aspects.

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    • SassyGhostQueen101 wrote: Nico can send people to asophel at will. Do I need to say anything else?

      Yes, you need to spell asphodel correctly.:)

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    • LEO

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    • I don't think shouting LEO is helping people decide who would win.

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    • A FANDOM user
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