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  • I felt like Alex was handled poorly. Not a character who happens to be a transgender, but a transgender who happens to be a character. Alex didn't have any defining traits that wasn't related to being transgender (dream jobs, favorite games etc.) The only trait that wasn't related to being transgender was the love of camping. Even that wasn't really explored or explained much. Alex just camped a lot with his family (if I remember correctly). Despite the fact Alex's had a hateful family. It isn’t said how, when or why or what impact it had on Alex. It only there to give Magnus and Alex a similarity.

    Everytime a character interacted with Alex, it had to do with gender. I think the only time gender didn’t enter Magnus and Alex’s convos were in an off-hand mentioned conversation off-screen (Magnus mentions they made fun of Uncle Randolph’s place, that’s it).

    Alex is a human, not a transgender robot. He has other things going in his life too. Then, we were fed all the information we would ever want to know about transgenders and then some. Alex seemed to be a vessel for sharing the author’s views or educating us about being gender-fluid. To be honest, I felt like I was being talked down upon. I know what those terms meant. I’m not five. If I want a lesson like that, I go to tumblr which I have done in the past. In fact, it was in those moments I forgot I was reading a book and believed I was reading a tumblr post.

    The only other traits Alex seems to have is fluidity (which seems to be a defining and important part of the plot and his character) and a chip on his shoulder. Chip on his shoulder is no exaggeration either as he would literally have a murderous rage at even a person looking at him wrong (aka Magnus). It’s obvious Alex has some demons in the past he needs to deal with and a lot of inner turmoil. Rather than helping him deal with it though by allowing Alex like himself no matter what people call him, people cave into his requests and did what he wanted in fear for their life. He could’ve had a very interesting arc and character growth as he learned to love himself but instead we got, “Ask questions, get the wire.” Alex isn’t any different than at the start of the story beside having a few people he semi trusts.

    Tl;dr: Alex's character had a lot of potential but the author seemed to forget that Alex had other defining traits than being a transgender.

    Note: Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I am not writing this to hurt. I'm just seeing if anyone else was disapointed with how the author treated the character. Alex had so much potential but was instead a tumblr preachy, homicidal teenager.

    PLEASE READ: If you respond to this, please keep all conversations civil. This will be about the character Alex, not transgenders. I know a lot of you feel strongly about topics like these because you're part of the LGBT community or very religious. Remember, no personal attacks as that is against site policy and is not acceptable anyways.

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    • I think that Rick is getting a little TOO relaxed with his characters. You don't know how surprised I was that Rick made a TRANSGENDER character. But I can't help it being impressed by how creative Rick is with the transgender being a child of Loki, who's a shapeshifter, blah, blah, blah. Also, there seems to be some kind of romantic bond with Magnus and Alex. Which I'm curious because I never heard of a straight guy dating a transgender before.

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    • Ea225225 wrote:
      I think that Rick is getting a little TOO relaxed with his characters. You don't know how surprised I was that Rick made a TRANSGENDER character. But I can't help it being impressed by how creative Rick is with the transgender being a child of Loki, who's a shapeshifter, blah, blah, blah. Also, there seems to be some kind of romantic bond with Magnus and Alex. Which I'm curious because I never heard of a straight guy dating a transgender before.

      Magnus might not be straight. His sexuality is never explicitly stated. However, what would he be? Is he gay because he is sexually attracted to the body of a male or straight because Alex usually refers to himself as a she? But then, Alex's gender flips a lot. Does that mean Magnus is gay some days and straight the others? Is he like, only sexually attracted to transgenders? Is there a term for that?

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:

      Ea225225 wrote:
      I think that Rick is getting a little TOO relaxed with his characters. You don't know how surprised I was that Rick made a TRANSGENDER character. But I can't help it being impressed by how creative Rick is with the transgender being a child of Loki, who's a shapeshifter, blah, blah, blah. Also, there seems to be some kind of romantic bond with Magnus and Alex. Which I'm curious because I never heard of a straight guy dating a transgender before.

      Magnus might not be straight. His sexuality is never explicitly stated. However, what would he be? Is he gay because he is sexually attracted to the body of a male or straight because Alex usually refers to himself as a she? But then, Alex's gender flips a lot. Does that mean Magnus is gay some days and straight the others? Is he like, only sexually attracted to transgenders? Is there a term for that?

      I think if should have already informed that if he's gay, the whole book is in his POV. I don't think he is gay, because in the first book, it said that he kissed a girl her name was Jackie something, it was like in the 7th grade in some prom.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:
      Ea225225 wrote:
      I think that Rick is getting a little TOO relaxed with his characters. You don't know how surprised I was that Rick made a TRANSGENDER character. But I can't help it being impressed by how creative Rick is with the transgender being a child of Loki, who's a shapeshifter, blah, blah, blah. Also, there seems to be some kind of romantic bond with Magnus and Alex. Which I'm curious because I never heard of a straight guy dating a transgender before.
      Magnus might not be straight. His sexuality is never explicitly stated. However, what would he be? Is he gay because he is sexually attracted to the body of a male or straight because Alex usually refers to himself as a she? But then, Alex's gender flips a lot. Does that mean Magnus is gay some days and straight the others? Is he like, only sexually attracted to transgenders? Is there a term for that?

      I'm pretty sure the term for that would be Pansexual. Meaning you can be sexually attracted to someone regardless of their sex, gender, or gender expression. 

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    • II think Rick felt that he had to put a transgender person in because if he wouldn't then people would get mad. I don't think there's any necessity in it having to put anything in books.

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    • Yeah he's really playing the not straight=trajic background a bit much. There ARE LGBTQ+ people who have had happy lives, accepting parents, and who don't have chronic deppression, which is something Rick doesn't seem to get.Even Nico's character is entirely based on him being gay, but he wasn't introduced as gay so it doesn't feel that way. But since Alex was introduced as trans-gender fluid, we see all the flaws. But honestly, I'm definitely shipping Malux(magnus x Alex) very hardly. In regards to that, Magnus could be bi(likes both boys and girls) and therefore like Alex as both, or he could be Pansexual and just literally not care about idenntifying gender.

      But A trans-gender fluid shapehifter child of a gender fluid shapeshifter? Very clever.........which Loki is also the god of...............I am seeing Rick's train of thought now................

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    • I still ship Magnus x Sam. Amir should go to Helheim. 

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    • Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      I still ship Magnus x Sam. Amir should go to Helheim. 

      Umm whaaaaaaaat, Samirah & Amir are perfect for each-other and honestly Samirah and Magnus would suck together and have never shown even the smallest indication of romance between the two, that's like shipping Leo & Piper. Or Annabeth & Frank. Plus Samir(Sam+Amir) is by far the best ship name in existence.

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Commander Tool Belt wrote:
      I still ship Magnus x Sam. Amir should go to Helheim. 
      Umm whaaaaaaaat, Samirah & Amir are perfect for each-other and honestly Samirah and Magnus would suck together and have never shown even the smallest indication of romance between the two, that's like shipping Leo & Piper. Or Annabeth & Frank. Plus Samir(Sam+Amir) is by far the best ship name in existence.

      And we know they are a perfect match because we've seen an awful lot of Amir. 

      Actually I don't know cause I haven't read Hammer of Thor yet. But even though Samir is a really good name for a ship and I agree, that holds no significance in my brain cause someone could argue that Jasper is a good ship name and it quite is, but the content is revolting. See what I mean?

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    • I wasn't big on AmirXSamirah until the Hammer of Thor. Their relationship is really explored and so is Amir's character in the book.

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    • Hmm. I'll see. 

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    • I think we'll still need time for the characters to develop a little. Alex is technically part of the Floor 19 crew, which are the least developed characters in the series. The storyline rather focuses on Magnus, Samirah, Hearthstone and Blitzen. And it was clear Riordan took more time developing Hearthstone and Samirah with this book. Alex wasn't even in that many scenes. I think we need to give them time. They'll surely be further developed in the next book.

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      • Pout* 
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    • i was actually thinking along the same lines of magnus being bisexual, i was always wondering that while i was reading the interactions that he had with Alex, since at least i believe she was clearly introduced as a love interest. But i agree with Draco, this was clearly hearthstone's and samirah's book.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote: I wasn't big on AmirXSamirah until the Hammer of Thor. Their relationship is really explored and so is Amir's character in the book.

      I absolutely agree! They were so cute in The Hammer of Thor. Amir is soo sweet! Almost as sweet as Percy!

      Alex is ok. We'll see how the next book goes for him. I'm just tired of character after character not getting along with any of their parents, as if that's not even possible anymore.

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    • While I can't speak from a view in the LGBTQ+, I have to say that the character wasn't very good from a writing standpoint.

      Alex Fierro is someone who added nothing new to the narrative of the second Magnus book (Her LGBTQ+ status notwithstanding) and could be removed from the story with no issues. Rick wanted her to be some strong, independent kickbutt person with a "sassy" attitude but she came off to me as a mostly rude person and was a major Jerk but not in the fun way or even in the way of Clarisse:She spends her time insulting the Gods in the same vicinity as them (Unlike when Percy and Annabeth called out Hera on her crap treatment of Nico, or Jason who calls out Jupiter who nearly is about to blast the boy for his insolence), which annoyed me because they're STRONGER than her (Yeah Yeah, I know that Demigods in certain stories and even in this series have fought/defeated Gods before but still.) and if they were like the Olympians she'd be dead by now or at the least cursed.

      Really, her only silver lining was helping Sam with no strings attached.

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    • The Mysterious Ms. Enter wrote: While I can't speak from a view in the LGBTQ+, I have to say that the character wasn't very good from a writing standpoint.

      Alex Fierro is someone who added nothing new to the narrative of the second Magnus book (Her LGBTQ+ status notwithstanding) and could be removed from the story with no issues. Rick wanted her to be some strong, independent kickbutt person with a "sassy" attitude but she came off to me as a mostly rude person and was a major Jerk but not in the fun way or even in the way of Clarisse:She spends her time insulting the Gods in the same vicinity as them (Unlike when Percy and Annabeth called out Hera on her crap treatment of Nico, or Jason who calls out Jupiter who nearly is about to blast the boy for his insolence), which annoyed me because they're STRONGER than her (Yeah Yeah, I know that Demigods in certain stories and even in this series have fought/defeated Gods before but still.) and if they were like the Olympians she'd be dead by now or at the least cursed.

      Really, her only silver lining was helping Sam with no strings attached.

      I don't think Alex was even meant to be a good person; just a girl with a mysterious past and a few redeeming qualities. She seemed to me like the morally-grey-character-that-helps-the-heroes-out-of-personal-interest. And she's by far the most anti-authoritarian character we've ever had to deal with, and we had to deal with Sadie Kane, to put things into perspective. Also, Rick went out of his way to make the Norse gods quite childish to the point of annoyance. I mean, the Greek gods were partially mad, but they all had moments of wisdom (Except for Ares, I can't remember any from him). The Norses were underwhelming.

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    • well the norse gods are younger, and well ares in mars form did have his moments

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    • DracoWombat wrote:

      The Mysterious Ms. Enter wrote: While I can't speak from a view in the LGBTQ+, I have to say that the character wasn't very good from a writing standpoint.

      Alex Fierro is someone who added nothing new to the narrative of the second Magnus book (Her LGBTQ+ status notwithstanding) and could be removed from the story with no issues. Rick wanted her to be some strong, independent kickbutt person with a "sassy" attitude but she came off to me as a mostly rude person and was a major Jerk but not in the fun way or even in the way of Clarisse:She spends her time insulting the Gods in the same vicinity as them (Unlike when Percy and Annabeth called out Hera on her crap treatment of Nico, or Jason who calls out Jupiter who nearly is about to blast the boy for his insolence), which annoyed me because they're STRONGER than her (Yeah Yeah, I know that Demigods in certain stories and even in this series have fought/defeated Gods before but still.) and if they were like the Olympians she'd be dead by now or at the least cursed.

      Really, her only silver lining was helping Sam with no strings attached.

      I don't think Alex was even meant to be a good person; just a girl with a mysterious past and a few redeeming qualities. She seemed to me like the morally-grey-character-that-helps-the-heroes-out-of-personal-interest. And she's by far the most anti-authoritarian character we've ever had to deal with, and we had to deal with Sadie Kane, to put things into perspective. Also, Rick went out of his way to make the Norse gods quite childish to the point of annoyance. I mean, the Greek gods were partially mad, but they all had moments of wisdom (Except for Ares, I can't remember any from him). The Norses were underwhelming.

      Morally Grey or Not, it still doesn't really excuse her unlikable nature for me. I don't have problems with Protagonists who are jerks, don't get me wrong but she wasn't a funny jerkish protagonist or one that could have been interesting, she just felt like that one lazy jerk in the group who was disinterested and only occasionally tried being helpful.

      She was more or less a guest party member or Sixth Ranger type of person, rather someone tied to the plot and while the whole Sixth Ranger trope worked out for other characters in other media the same can't be said for here.

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    • No, I think Rick did a fine job with Alex's character. Doesn't matter if Alex is Transgender. Great personality and fits right into the book.

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    • Demeter101 wrote:
      No, I think Rick did a fine job with Alex's character. Doesn't matter if Alex is Transgender. Great personality and fits right into the book.

      Its not that she's transgender, its that her entire personality stems from being Transgender, like she has no defining qualities or traits other than being transgender.(But I still love her anyway)

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      Demeter101 wrote:
      No, I think Rick did a fine job with Alex's character. Doesn't matter if Alex is Transgender. Great personality and fits right into the book.

      Its not that she's transgender, its that her entire personality stems from being Transgender, like she has no defining qualities or traits other than being transgender.(But I still love her anyway)

      She likes pottery, and is jerkish...So that's three things Alex has to her personality.

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    • The Mysterious Ms. Enter wrote:

      Oceanhalo12 wrote:


      Demeter101 wrote:
      No, I think Rick did a fine job with Alex's character. Doesn't matter if Alex is Transgender. Great personality and fits right into the book.
      Its not that she's transgender, its that her entire personality stems from being Transgender, like she has no defining qualities or traits other than being transgender.(But I still love her anyway)
      She likes pottery, and is jerkish...So that's three things Alex has to her personality.

      Pottery relates to her whole 'taking control of her body' thing so that's still transgender-related, and she's jerkish because of how she's been treated in life(homelessness and jerk parents and such) which was all because she's transgender-fluid.

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      The Mysterious Ms. Enter wrote:

      Oceanhalo12 wrote:


      Demeter101 wrote:
      No, I think Rick did a fine job with Alex's character. Doesn't matter if Alex is Transgender. Great personality and fits right into the book.
      Its not that she's transgender, its that her entire personality stems from being Transgender, like she has no defining qualities or traits other than being transgender.(But I still love her anyway)
      She likes pottery, and is jerkish...So that's three things Alex has to her personality.

      Pottery relates to her whole 'taking control of her body' thing so that's still transgender-related, and she's jerkish because of how she's been treated in life(homelessness and jerk parents and such) which was all because she's transgender-fluid.

      So yeah what the poster said is kind of true, Alex is solely defined by her transgender status.

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    • I think that yes, most of Alex's traits are shaped by her genderfluid status but at the same time those are traits I love in her regardless of origin

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    • The Mysterious Ms. Enter wrote:

      Oceanhalo12 wrote:

      Demeter101 wrote:
      No, I think Rick did a fine job with Alex's character. Doesn't matter if Alex is Transgender. Great personality and fits right into the book.
      Its not that she's transgender, its that her entire personality stems from being Transgender, like she has no defining qualities or traits other than being transgender.(But I still love her anyway)

      She likes pottery, and is jerkish...So that's three things Alex has to her personality.

      I feel that Alex was handled poorly (my opinion).

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    • ^agreed

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    • Rick honestly should have paid more to Alex's character.

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    • Sebastienxu467 wrote:
      Rick honestly should have paid more to Alex's character.


      Yes.

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    • Ugh. I had typed a reply earlier but wikia ate it up. I hate when it does that.

      Anyways, the more I think about, the more I dislike Alex as a person in general. His attitude is that of a caustic, hateful person with a chip on his shoulder.

      Alex hits people, threatens to harm them, insults people, trashes a room given to him for free because it wasn't to his liking (unless I am not remembering the real reason) and, according to this wiki itself, he has "a tendency to throw things at people when in a bad mood."

      If that's not bad enough, much of his behavior is a tantrum blown out of proportion to what happened to him. Most of what I mentioned above is because he was called a bad name, argr. You know what, Alex? Everyone is called names. I was called so many horrible names because of my disability. But did I threaten to murder the person whilst throwing a ceramic bowl at their head? No. You can be mad, Alex. Perhaps yell at the person. Or perhaps try to educate the person on their ignorance. But hit the person across the face? Yes, that'll make the person change their mind about you *eye roll*. Physical violence will never be an appropriate reaction to be called a name, period.

      Also, Alex seems to expect everyone to treat him like the queen he thinks he is, even if he treats others like garbage. Guess what, Alex? Golden rule. Treat people as you want to be treated.

      Unfortunately, it works out the way Alex wants/expects. Alex yells, demeans and hurts a person and the person decides it's their own fault that Alex behaves this way not, you know, Alex's fault. They reward Alex for his behavior by being "nicer" and Alex, in turn becomes a tiny bit less caustic. Tiny bit.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:

      His his him his he his he argr him queen he he he his

      The character of Alex predominantly identifies as female.  The only time you referred to her as such was to use the term "queen," which I hardly need explain has a problematic history with the LGBTQ+ community. 

      You are the reason Riordan created this character.

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    • MarieMarieMarie wrote:

      VidiaPhoenix wrote:

      His his him his he his he argr him queen he he he his

      The character of Alex predominantly identifies as female.  The only time you referred to her as such was to use the term "queen," which I hardly need explain has a problematic history with the LGBTQ+ community. 

      You are the reason Riordan created this character.

      "He" is not incorrect though. Alex switches between she and he. Alex indentifies as both he and she depending on the time. I used he. It is not wrong. If I called Alex an it or they, which he clearly says he does not like, there would be a problem. As it stands, Alex is genderfluid. Both he and she is correct.

      Edit: If you believe transphobes is the reason Rick created the character, then he created the character for the wrong reason. You write characters in because they have a place in your plot not because you want to make a political statement. Also, instead of implying I'm a transphobe because I don't use the pronouns you like to use (he is a correct pronoun), try to keep with the original discussion. We were talking about whether Alex was well written and handled correctly. Most here agree that Alex was an unpleasant character that brought nothing to the table except for being lgbt.

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote: Pottery relates to her whole 'taking control of her body' thing so that's still transgender-related, and she's jerkish because of how she's been treated in life(homelessness and jerk parents and such) which was all because she's transgender-fluid.

      Well, I haven't read the books, but this conversation seems to be taking a turn where some are strongly for and some strongly against the topic. Be flexible. Be receptive to what others say. You might pick up something that changes your mind. And it seems like this is getting slightly (mind you, slightly) controversial. Please don't do that. Please avoid that.

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    • FeastofSpes wrote:

      Oceanhalo12 wrote: Pottery relates to her whole 'taking control of her body' thing so that's still transgender-related, and she's jerkish because of how she's been treated in life(homelessness and jerk parents and such) which was all because she's transgender-fluid.

      Well, I haven't read the books, but this conversation seems to be taking a turn where some are strongly for and some strongly against the topic. Be flexible. Be receptive to what others say. You might pick up something that changes your mind.

      And it seems like this is getting slightly (mind you, slightly) controversial. Please don't do that. Please avoid that.

      I agree. I don't want to get into a controversial transgender debate. The purpose of this forum topic is to talk about Alex.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:

      Ugh. I had typed a reply earlier but wikia ate it up. I hate when it does that.

      Anyways, the more I think about, the more I dislike Alex as a person in general. His attitude is that of a caustic, hateful person with a chip on his shoulder.

      Alex hits people, threatens to harm them, insults people, trashes a room given to him for free because it wasn't to his liking (unless I am not remembering the real reason) and, according to this wiki itself, he has "a tendency to throw things at people when in a bad mood."

      If that's not bad enough, much of his behavior is a tantrum blown out of proportion to what happened to him. Most of what I mentioned above is because he was called a bad name, argr. You know what, Alex? Everyone is called names. I was called so many horrible names because of my disability. But did I threaten to murder the person whilst throwing a ceramic bowl at their head? No. You can be mad, Alex. Perhaps yell at the person. Or perhaps try to educate the person on their ignorance. But hit the person across the face? Yes, that'll make the person change their mind about you *eye roll*. Physical violence will never be an appropriate reaction to be called a name, period.

      Also, Alex seems to expect everyone to treat him like the queen he thinks he is, even if he treats others like garbage. Guess what, Alex? Golden rule. Treat people as you want to be treated.

      Unfortunately, it works out the way Alex wants/expects. Alex yells, demeans and hurts a person and the person decides it's their own fault that Alex behaves this way not, you know, Alex's fault. They reward Alex for his behavior by being "nicer" and Alex, in turn becomes a tiny bit less caustic. Tiny bit.

      • Claps*

      Now THIS is summed up perfectly as to why I dislike this character, since Alex is how you don't create a good jerk character...Never did I once like her jerkish attitude or comebacks, because she felt like such a tacked on character who I couldn't identify with not because she/he is transgender/gender-fluid, but because how much of an ass Alex was.

      Thank you so much for this.

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    • ^^^Yep.

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    • Shrugs while I didn't like Alex all that much I didn't hate her either. It has nothing to do with him being transgender...it's just her attitude that kind of put me off.

      HOWEVER despite that I ship him and Magnus like whoa! I LOVE them together on paper...hopefully Rick makes it work well in a beliqvavle fashion.

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    • LucasVerBeek wrote:
      Shrugs while I didn't like Alex all that much I didn't hate her either. It has nothing to do with him being transgender...it's just her attitude that kind of put me off.

      HOWEVER despite that I ship him and Magnus like whoa! I LOVE them together on paper...hopefully Rick makes it work well in a beliqvavle fashion.

      Even though I don't like Alex, I do ship Magnex. Maglex? Alnus? Malex?

      You get what I mean.

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    • Wikia y u eat up my reply it took time to write cri

      I, for one, don't find myself bonding with most of Rick's newer characters(with a few exceptions, of course.) One such character is Alex, and I feel like Rick just introduced them for the sake of having another LGBTQ+ character. I mean, it's getting to the point where it feels like Rick's trying too hard to add more diversity in his universe; what with a gay couple(which I'm fine with, though it was a bit rushed), and now a transgender and a lesbian couple who left the Hunt to be with each other? I don't mean to be homophobic or transphobic, and I apologize if I come off that way, but I'm trying to look at it from a realistic point of view. As for adding diversity, I don't see how that's helping, because his newer characters seem to have barely any persoanlity, they're mostly irritated, violent, and seem to dislike and distrust the main character at first, but then show a softer side, much like tsundere. But enough of that, I'm going off-topic now.

      Alex. I don't hate them, but I really wish we'd gotten to know explore their personality and their past, that would've made them a much more likable character to me. And I ship Malex, they're kinda cute, I guess, but sometimes I feel like they're being written that way just to give Magnus a love interest.

      -end of rant-

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    • Uncle Rick is getting preachy now, with that paragraph in THO and Alex

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    • Utkar22 wrote:
      Uncle Rick is getting preachy now, with that paragraph in THO and Alex

      Thank-you! I wanted to point that out but decided that, since I'm not an LGBT person, I have no authority to really judge. However, that one paragraph (if we are thinking the same one) felt like it was straight off a tumblr post which is NOT a good thing.

      I've been wanting to talk about how preachy Rick has been getting lately but too nervous as it's easy to come of as some sort of bigot. I mean, it's great he's including others but... that's the only reason most of those characters are there. Inclusion. They have a bare minimum personality and may even contradict logic (Rick, I don't care if Apollo is a god. Males can't have babies with each other. You have to have an ovary for the sperm and, if you have an ovary, you are now sexually a female at this point. Thus, it is not maleXmale but maleXfemale)

      Btw, should I make a topic about Rick's apparent tokenism or do you think it may be a little too sensitive? I think as Viral and Utkar have pointed out, it's an issue with his writing that seems to be getting worse and I think it should be spoken about. However, creating that topic is almost like asking for trouble. I might ask an admin for permission before doing so.

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    • To be honest, I thought she was a pretty awesome and interesting character. Fight me.

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    • Ea225225 wrote:
      To be honest, I thought she was a pretty awesome and interesting character. Fight me.

      No need to fight. It's perfectly fine if you like Alex.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:

      Ea225225 wrote:
      To be honest, I thought she was a pretty awesome and interesting character. Fight me.

      No need to fight. It's perfectly fine if you like Alex.

      LOL my bad. Soooo why don't you like Alex again?

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    • Ea225225 wrote:

      VidiaPhoenix wrote:

      Ea225225 wrote:
      To be honest, I thought she was a pretty awesome and interesting character. Fight me.
      No need to fight. It's perfectly fine if you like Alex.
      LOL my bad. Soooo why don't you like Alex again?

      Well, I already wrote all my thoughts above. You can check them all out if you are wondering. Specifically, the post I posted 4 days ago.

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    • Utkar22 wrote:
      Uncle Rick is getting preachy now, with that paragraph in THO and Alex

      Ah, I was looking for a word to describe his newer books, I guess 'preachy' does it.

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    • To be honest, Alex's character made me aware of gender-fluid people. I am from India, where there isn't much awareness about other genders and sexualities. So in that sense, I find Alex's character "educating". 

      However, sometimes, Alex seems to be somewhat extreme and radical. It is like people should agree with Alex, or else they will attack them.  [Edited my post. Sorry for my remarks on social justice warriors.]

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    • There are parts that are kind of preachy in the newer books. But I'm not really that bothered by it. Nico was handled pretty well, Apollo's bisexuality really doesn't detract anything from the series, nor did the Ex-Hunter couple, I mean it's literally just oh hey it's two older woman that love each other that help take care of runaways, the former part isn't that big of a deal but the latter definitely defined their characters not their sexuality. The Magnus books can definitely get a bit preachy though

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:

      Ea225225 wrote:

      VidiaPhoenix wrote:

      Ea225225 wrote:
      To be honest, I thought she was a pretty awesome and interesting character. Fight me.
      No need to fight. It's perfectly fine if you like Alex.
      LOL my bad. Soooo why don't you like Alex again?

      Well, I already wrote all my thoughts above. You can check them all out if you are wondering. Specifically, the post I posted 4 days ago.

      Ooooooohhh. I understand your frustration now. No wonder your so ticked. To be honest I never actually finished Hammer of Thor yet. I found it a little boring and uninteresting and my deadline was near, so I decided to read it another time. But I did remember liking the character. I thought she was pretty bad***.

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    • you know what though, being a shapeshifter destroys the character. now I haven't read Magnus' books but, I do have an idea of what he/she/it can do. that is shapeshift. that makes transgender/genderfluid or what have you something without consequences. whether you agree with that way of life or not doesn't really matter. the problem is that if you can shift your body on a whim then in theory no one should bat an eye at your fluidity. it's not like physically you're male and think of yourself as female. nor are you going out of your way to mutilate your body into something else that you can't come back from. there are no consequences because your literal form is whatever you want it to be. just because as a female you still look mostly male doesn't really change that. you could look like a supermodel if really wanted to make it obvious.

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    • Mutilate your body...what the hell do you mean by that?

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    • LucasVerBeek wrote:
      Mutilate your body...what the hell do you mean by that?


      surgery basically. get cut up and change things around when physically there's nothing wrong. I'm trying to leave personal opinions on peoples mental health out of it because everyone has their own and it just leads to fights.

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    • You're touching a slightly controversial topic here, imo. Whatever you do, remain civil.

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    • I'm trying to remain civil. my point though is that these people have a lot of considerations to make and can't exactly go back once a decision is made. Alex can. there are no consequences (Loki's machinations aside) for the gender fluidity/trans when one can shape shift. it makes less of an impact to me because someone who can shapeshift could just as easily spend all their time as a lion and say they felt like a lion that day.

      it isn't some looming choice that will impact Alex for the rest of his/her life to be male or female. it's literally just, ok I am one or the other now. while the apparent visual difference is only slight it could be far different with a greater emphasis on a male or female form. either way Alex can simply revert without consequence when he/she decides not to be a male or female anymore.

      It's not even that a character that shifts it's appearance all the time is a bad thing. it just shouldn't be something that's a huge deal.

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    • I don't honestly think you know what you're talking about but...especially the whole "wanting to go back" tidbit.

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    • please elaborate. if I have no idea what I'm talking about then explain it. tell me how I'm wrong or don't bother bringing it because it adds nothing to the discussion.

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    • "Change something that isn't wrong with them." If their brain doesn't match their body then yes there is something wrong there, and they have every right to change their body to match what's on the inside.

      And I have never heard, not *once* of a transgender person "wanting to go back." Why would they they are perfectly fine with who they are now.

      That's all I have to say about this.

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    • so your argument is? I'm trying to leave stances on it aside not supporting or opposing the situation I mean. also just just YOU have heard of about them regretting their choices does not make it an invalid argument. change doesn't guarantee they'll be happier but, that's not what I'm arguing.

      my argument is that Alex has no consequences.(loki aside) Alex can change on a whim without having to consider whether or not shifting from one thing to another is really what he/she wants, is my argument. it's harder for people to relate to something like that. I think the character would be better without the ability to shapeshift.

      It's fine if you disagree with me. I'm not trying to start a fight.

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    • than at least next time stick with "change".

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    • We're getting very close to a debate about transgenderism. Let's go back to the discussion which is about Alex as a character.

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    • right, while I think Alex's character could have been developed more that's what additional books are for, I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote: We're getting very close to a debate about transgenderism. Let's go back to the discussion which is about Alex as a character.

      Indeed.

      Alex's character if I'm being truthful seems like she came straight outta Tumblr, lacking substance and receives praises to the highest level when in reality her Personality and treatment of others would still grind my gears regardless of her gender.

      I also think that I might be the only one, but HoT just felt like it had minor bashing towards people who even support the LGBT community and tries to be "educational" while certain characters who even slightly disagree with Alex are treated as in the wrong/neanderthals while Magnus would get preachy.

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    • Blazenite104 wrote:
      LucasVerBeek wrote:
      Mutilate your body...what the hell do you mean by that?

      surgery basically. get cut up and change things around when physically there's nothing wrong. I'm trying to leave personal opinions on peoples mental health out of it because everyone has their own and it just leads to fights.

      So tattoos, plastic surgery, and circumcision,piercings must be wrong as well. Otherwise your point is invalid.(And btw feeling one gender but being another constitutes as 'something wrong' in my book).

      But anyways, Alex has already mentioned she cannot actually permanently change her sex simply by shapeshifting.

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Blazenite104 wrote:
      LucasVerBeek wrote:
      Mutilate your body...what the hell do you mean by that?

      surgery basically. get cut up and change things around when physically there's nothing wrong. I'm trying to leave personal opinions on peoples mental health out of it because everyone has their own and it just leads to fights.
      So tattoos, plastic surgery, and circumcision,piercings must be wrong as well. Otherwise your point is invalid.(And btw feeling one gender but being another constitutes as 'something wrong' in my book).

      But anyways, Alex has already mentioned she cannot actually permanently change her sex simply by shapeshifting.

      Honestly, I don't care much for any of the examples you said. I mean, people can do it I just don't know why they would (except piercings).

      Circumcision seems like a cruel thing that is reserved for animals; plastic surgery is a permanent and often botched alteration of the body that people who have low self-esteem will think it will make them more confident (it doesn't, if you aren't happy with yourself, you need to gain confidence and a body alteration won't cure do that); tattoos are extremely painful and permanent, so if you don't like what you have next year, too bad, it's there to stay.

      Piercings are the most reasonable out of them. They can heal easily so it's not a permanent, life/body altering decision. Because, chances are, you will change your mind. I know I wouldn't make the same decisions about stuff that I did back in school. People grow and change.

      I just don't understand why someone would permanently change their body through such extreme measures. Maybe I am too old fashioned but I think you should be careful what you do to your body as you might regret it later. I consider those examples mutilation because you are damaging your body with scalpels, knives, needles and injecting chemicals into your body that don't belong there. It's not like your body will stop being healthy if you don't get a plastic surgery/tattoo/etc, in fact, you are damaging a perfectly healthy body for whatever reason you feel the need to get the aforementioned.

      EDIT: I mixed up circumcision with castration. My bad. Circumcision isn't done just to make people feel good about themselves, people are more likely to experience medical problems if they don't (infections through germs being trapped under). Ergo, it is a health concern.

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    • ^I know many people with tattoos and piercings and very rarely do people 'change their mind', except in the case that the tattoo turned out bad do to an unskilled artist. But if it looks good, they generally keep it in my experience.

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    • ^I'll take your word for it!

      EDIT: I also might be biased against tattoos because I have a crippling fear of needles...

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    • ^Xd I get it now...

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    • I always thought of circumcision as something that's forced. Oh, well, I guess I thought so incorrectly. :/

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    • TheViralSorceress wrote:
      I always thought of circumcision as something that's forced. Oh, well, I guess I thought so incorrectly. :/


      depends. some people get it done when their older. apparently makes going to the bathroom quite painful for a while afterwards. often done in places like deserts because it decreases chance of infection. so yeah, it can be forced or done later.

      typically it's a health thing outside of Jewish society though.

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    • ^^Jewish and Muslim society.

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    • Doesn't have to be health reasons though, John Harvey Kellogg had a strange view on circumcision, don't want to get off topic or go above a PG rating so you can look it up.

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    • Utkar22 wrote:
      Uncle Rick is getting preachy now, with that paragraph in THO and Alex

      Wait....which paragraph?

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    • CookiesAndChicken wrote:
      Utkar22 wrote:
      Uncle Rick is getting preachy now, with that paragraph in THO and Alex
      Wait....which paragraph?

      I think he is referring to the paragraph where Alex essentially gives a tumblr speech. The paragraph boils down to:

      "It's important to realize that, it's just the way I was born. Just because my gender doesn't line up with my genitalia, doesn't mean I'm not like everyone else. It's also important to recognize I am but one person with transgenderism and in no way claim to be the spokesperson. All transgender people are unique with their own unique circumstances. The way I experience it is not how other people experience it. Please never forget that. Always be accepting and kind of people with transgenderism."

      He wrote it a bit more pretentious than that though.

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    • Tbh it's true to life. As a member of the LBGTQ+ community, you take what interest you can get to educate those willing.

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    • Oceanhalo12 wrote:
      Tbh it's true to life. As a member of the LBGTQ+ community, you take what interest you can get to educate those willing.

      Not saying it's not true. I'm just saying that I don't read urban children's fantasy to be lectured about transgenderism. If I want to know that, I go read a book on it or browse tumblr.

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    • Then again, it is one of the best place to educate children

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    • Utkar22 wrote:
      Then again, it is one of the best place to educate children

      Personally, and this is my opinion, transgenderism may be too complicated for 9-12 year olds (the target audience). Transgenders themselves can't agree on what it means to be transgender.

      It has to do with the brain. No, it has to do with emotions and feelings. No, it has to do with mannerisms. There's only two genders. No, it's a spectrum. You can't be two genders. Yes, you can be two genders. Genderfluid isn't valid. Genderfluid is valid. It's a mental illness. It's not a mental illness. You can't be considered a real trans!boy/girl until you transition. No, you are always a valid transgender. Agender is a thing. Agender is not a thing. People should love me regardless of what's in my pants or it's transphobic. No, people have sexual preferences, we can't change that.

      Besides, 70-80% of all children who think they are the opposite gender grow out of it. Teach all this stuff too early, we'll just confuse them and they'll self diagnose themselves with something they don't have. Like those kids that browse the internet and self-diagnose themselves with bipolar. We'll end up with a bunch of transtrenders or people who don't even truly understand what transgenderism is and that will do nothing but hurt real transgender people struggling with their self-identity because people will eventually think all trans people are just attention seekers.

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    • ^ isn't wrong. Preachy just confuses kids. heck as a 21 year old I'm confused by what's going on. tolerance is a good thing to teach for all kinds of people though.

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    • Blazenite104 wrote:
      ^ isn't wrong. Preachy just confuses kids. heck as a 21 year old I'm confused by what's going on. tolerance is a good thing to teach for all kinds of people though.

      Tolerance is definitly a better and easier message for children. Teach kids that, and they don't need to understand transgenderism to be kind to them.

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    • ^Beautifully put.

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    • Accounting for her shape-shifting abilities, do you think that when Alex is male, she actually has a male anatomy and vice versa when she is female?

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    • AACM12 wrote:
      Accounting for her shape-shifting abilities, do you think that when Alex is male, she actually has a male anatomy and vice versa when she is female?

      No. Alex specifically states that getting male anatomy and vice versa isn't possible with shapeshifting or, at least, not permanent. Alex has male anatomy 100% of the time. Alex struggles with this and points out that it'd be easier if it was possible to shapeshift genders.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:
      AACM12 wrote:
      Accounting for her shape-shifting abilities, do you think that when Alex is male, she actually has a male anatomy and vice versa when she is female?
      No. Alex specifically states that getting male anatomy and vice versa isn't possible with shapeshifting or, at least, not permanent. Alex has male anatomy 100% of the time. Alex struggles with this and points out that it'd be easier if it was possible to shapeshift genders.

      I think you have got it wrong with male anatomy 100% of the time. If so, Alex isn't fluid gender, she's a transgender shapeshifter.

      P.S - Alex has got her own Wikipedia page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Fierro

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    • Famous Five 5 wrote:
      VidiaPhoenix wrote:
      AACM12 wrote:
      Accounting for her shape-shifting abilities, do you think that when Alex is male, she actually has a male anatomy and vice versa when she is female?
      No. Alex specifically states that getting male anatomy and vice versa isn't possible with shapeshifting or, at least, not permanent. Alex has male anatomy 100% of the time. Alex struggles with this and points out that it'd be easier if it was possible to shapeshift genders.
      I think you have got it wrong with male anatomy 100% of the time. If so, Alex isn't fluid gender, she's a transgender shapeshifter.

      P.S - Alex has got her own Wikipedia page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Fierro

      Alex is gender fluid because some days Alex identifies as a girl and some days Alex identifies as a boy. However, the male anatomy Alex was born with does not change.

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    • I never realised that till now ! I thought Alex could change her gender any time she wanted to. But how does that explain how Magnus seems to know that Alex is identifying as a boy/girl if he/she can't shapeshift genders ? Btw, hows that Wikipedia page ?

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    • Famous Five here, I lost my password and back with a new account.

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    • So when Alex shapeshifted into Sam she was basically a "male" Sam?

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    • AACM12 wrote:
      So when Alex shapeshifted into Sam she was basically a "male" Sam?

      I dunno. I thought that gender fluidity was from Loki's godly DNA, as she gave birth to Alex when she was a female. How's that Wikipedia page, asking again ? Because I created that.

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    • Fifth Famous wrote: ...
      How's that Wikipedia page, asking again ? Because I created that.

      Wow!

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    • Thanks a lot, means a lot to me. I was wondering whether it lacks any important details.

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    • Okay here goes my opinion:

      First i want to say that i understand the point of view of all you but i don't think that Alex is just defined by being transgender. All along the hammer of thor yes we see Alex trying to explain what it is gender fluid and transgender and it looks like Rick is trying to educate but it happens cause he is really trying. The problem is that the people who are older keep forgeting that when Rick writes he is writing for kids and kids don't know exactly what is being transgender and in my opinion it's done in the most natural way. And it is just in the second book cause in the third we see more the development of the relationship between Alex and Magnus and all their friends not about just Alex being transgender so it doesn't get so exhaustive at least for me.In the third book we can see too more about Alex's family and it isn't just her/his father, we learn more about her/his grandfather and the story of the family too.

      Second yes we all know that there are transgender people who are accepted by their family but in Magnus Chase Rick Riordan decided to show the reality of the kids that are homeless and between them there are gender fluid that weren't accepted and lost their home. It wasn't just the reality from transgender he tried to show it was the reality of the homeless transgender.

      Third yes Alex is agressive but it is because she/he doesn' t trust in anyone ( one thing that is more part of Alex soul than beacause her/his past)and passed half of her/his life with people that tried in all the ways change who she/he was. She/he accepts the person that she/he is but some people don't and i can say by my own experience that when it happens you become a bitter person and again in the third book she/he is more open and soft yes she/he still is ironic and sarcastic but it is Alex's personality . of course that she/he doesn't talk too much about past but it's because it's too painful and when it's that way you cant rush it.

      Okay now to finish i know some people are saying that Alex doesn't have a purpose to exist in the book and the story would work witouht her/him and it's true but it isn't just her/him all the characters except the principal are dispensable they are just there to give the readers more diversity of personality to read it's to get fun reading about them so we can see part of ourselves on them.And about the saying that Alex wasn't well explored i don't agree i think was explored enough and by te way Rick Riordan said that maybe he can come back and write more about Magnus Chase so let's wait.

      Thank you for reading and again I respect the point of view of all you and it's okay if you don't like Alex as long as you don't like cause of the personality of the character not the gender. In my opinion Alex was a great and funny character that i liked a lot it isn't my favorite but it was good to read about her/him cause i don't see lots of people like Alex in the books maybe when it changes nobody will need to start a discussion about it because it will hve turned so nomal that nobody will care

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    • Thank you for your input Laviniak. It wouldn't be much of a discussion if we didn't get varied viewpoints.

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    • honestly though Alex is basically defined by it. when I think of Alex all I can think of is shapeshifting trans son/daughter of loki. I don't think of badass cool or anything like I think of the other characters if that makes sense.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:
      Thank you for your input Laviniak. It wouldn't be much of a discussion if we didn't get varied viewpoints.

      Thank you for listening : )

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    • Magnus Chase, however, seems to be for a slightly older audience. We can say teenagers, I think. The books do involve some amount of gore and talks about social/ political issues.

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    • VishwaUser wrote:
      Magnus Chase, however, seems to be for a slightly older audience. We can say teenagers, I think. The books do involve some amount of gore and talks about social/ political issues.

      You would think but it is marketed to 9-12 year olds.

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    • Whoa okay. Times are changing I guess. I feel that Riordan does force "social justice" arguments now and then in the beginning of the book. But he stil does retain his sense of humor. So we have people like Magnus keeping the excessive "social justice-ism" in check.

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    • as long as social justice warrior is never the main character of a book I'll probably be able to deal with it. there's a major difference between saying what you think and being an ass, although they may coincide.

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    • I don't know why Riordan's policy of representing the underepresented is now seen as inappropriate. Percy Jackson himself was meant to show that even a child with learning difficulties can become a hero and one of the most powerful demigods in the world. In the second series,  orphans such as Leo, abandoned ones such as Jason, abused, mistreated, discriminated such as Piper and Hazel, misunderstood characters such as Frank are shown as the 7. In my school, all books by Rick Riordan are given only to 9th grade (14 years) and higher, not 10-12 years.

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    • yeah but, they felt organic. it was there and showed up when it was relevant but, most of the time you could easily forget about it. it didn't define them. leo I suppose his past was always in the background and hazel's not being born in modern times were around and parts of there character but, I at least remember other parts about them. things that make them memorable. for instance Leo is successful when others with greater experience and knowledge of the situation failed. Festus comes to mind every time.

      I guess it's another to each his own thoughts on them but, things outside of the tragedies of their characters stick out and are memorable. Alex... not so much.

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    • My thoughts on this became a little more coherent just a few hours ago. May not be right, but what I wanted to say (quoted from discussions):

      "

      Mr. Riordan recognizes the people with different orientations. But that was never the focus of his  books. That's why we talk about the story, rather than who is gay or who is straight.

      When I think of Nico di Angelo, "gay" is NOT the first thing that comes to my mind.
      When I think of Emmie and Jo, "lesbian" is NOT the first word that I associate with them.
      When I think of Apollo, "bisexual" is NOT the next thing in my mind.

      Unfortunately, when I think of Alex Fierro, "transgender" IS usually the next thing in my mind. In Magnus Chase 2 and 3, I feel Alex pushes so hard to tell us about different genders that it takes the focus away from their missions - fighting Loki, fighting giants, etc. E.g., wrongly assuming Pottery Barn's gender is a graver sin than not putting enough effort into fighting the giant.

      "

      Entirely my thoughts.

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    • Exactly my thoughts @Vish.


      That has to do with introduction as well. Nico was in 5 books before he was revealed to be gay. Alex was introduced as trans.

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    • ^Good point!

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    • I'm not sure if I said this, but it's important to note the difference between Alex and Nico's representation of their LGBT status.

      Nico was in five books before his sexuality was revealed.

      We knew of Alex's transgender status before learning of Alex's name.

      What does that say?

      Also, Suppandi, just because your school read it to 14 year olds, does not mean that's the norm. The books are marketed to 9-12 year olds and I personally remember it being a required reading in sixth grade at my school.

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    • VidiaPhoenix wrote:
      I'm not sure if I said this, but it's important to note the difference between Alex and Nico's representation of their LGBT status.

      Nico was in five books before his sexuality was revealed.

      We knew of Alex's transgender status before learning of Alex's name.

      What does that say?

      Also, Suppandi, just because your school read it to 14 year olds, does not mean that's the norm. The books are marketed to 9-12 year olds and I personally remember it being a required reading in sixth grade at my school.

      I know it's not the norm, that's why I sent the message.

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    • The point is that the only thing we really do know about her character is that she's transgender and genderfluid. It triggers me, that Rick introduces a character just for the sake of making his books more LGBTQ+ friendly. I have no problem with that at all, but that isn't why I read Rick's books.

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    • it kind of reeks of them being special. if you ever want them to be accepted as normal you have to treat them as normal people. it should be organically introduced when relevant. recently found out a friend was gay the other week. it wasn't obvious at all. I mean yeah there was no I 'oh that chicks hot' talk coming from him but the doesn't mean much. it came up because it suddenly became relevant to the conversation. if it wasn't for Australia's same sex marriage campaign I'd probably have never known.

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    • If Alex had the personality of Magnus or TJ - willing to listen, accept, forgive, move on - she might have been more likeable. But maybe that is something she has to learn. Maybe this will change in later series, if there are later series.

      For someone such as Alex who "likes change", this change shouldn't be too hard.

      [TJ probably led a much less "privileged" mortal life than Alex. Still his mind is much more positive.]

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    • ^Exactly. Thank you. I am tired of Rick's constant irritable and pessimistic characters. It's nice to have an optimistic character for a change. 

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    • TheViralSorceress wrote:
      The point is that the only thing we really do know about her character is that she's transgender and genderfluid. It triggers me, that Rick introduces a character just for the sake of making his books more LGBTQ+ friendly. I have no problem with that at all, but that isn't why I read Rick's books.


      Yeah, that's what I hate. There's nothing more to Alex's character than the fact that she is genderfluid which is a real shame.

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    • Personally, I read Alex's character in a comparison with Sam.They are both children of Loki and they both really don't like him. However, that is where the simalarities end.

      Sam is... very set in her ways - refusing to use her powers from Loki unless it is an emergency - this is used to show that she doesn't want to associate with Loki. She sees it as a weakeness to overcome, sees it as a personal goal to prove that she is not like Loki.

      On the other hand, Alex wants the same thing - to prove that she is not like Loki. However, Alex looks at it from a completely different angle. She acknowledges that she has these powers from Loki and then uses them for good actions.

      This comparison comes to play in the last act of The Hammer of Thor when Loki is trying to control both of them. Alex shrugs it off easily becasue she is just as adaptible as Loki is. Sam struggles a bit because she is trying to throw off Loki on pure determination.

      So while most people saw Alex's character traits stemming from being genderfluid I saw it more as "what if there was a child of Loki who was more like Loki? How would it affect all the main characters, especially the child of Loki we already know about?" And my reasoning for this? It was Sam who brought Alex to Valhalla, not just any random Valkyrie.

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    • ^An extremely valid point.

      (Spoiler but not really): I think she was characterized far better in SotD

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      Annabeth and Percy removed this reply because:
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